PY: [00:00:00] Welcome back to the Bonzaar Podcast. This is part three of the Underland Volunteers call out episode. We're gonna hear from the artery Team centre Camp Team, and the two build teams, the effigy Build team, and the Temple Build Team. I hope you enjoy it.

Up next is the Artery Team.

Danae, welcome to the podcast, as Stevan would say, a big bonzaar of welcome. How you doing?

Danae: Good, thank you. How are you?

PY: Good. Good. Um, can you, our beautiful audience, introduce yourself and tell us what you do at Underland?

Danae: Yeah, absolutely. Um, so for Underland, I am currently the artery lead. And what that essentially means is I coordinate people who are interested in bringing art type things to the event.

And at the moment I'm also, um, under my little [00:01:00] portfolio, I'm also helping to manage and run ignition grants. So it's also the non-art, um, sort of funding stream, um, for those kinds of, um, events, gatherings, other kinds of, um, happenings that people wanna organize at the events. So yeah, kind of managing art and non-art things that happen at the event at the moment.

PY: That's right. I'd forgotten I'd forgotten about those. I, for forgot. We have a bit of funding allocated for that as well. Let, let's come back to those. 'cause I think folks will be Yes. Be interested to hear about those. Can I hear about more, more about you first? How did, how did you get involved with these, hanging out with these crazy people and doing this, this funny stuff?

What's your, what's your origin story, if you like? How did it all begin?

Danae: How did it all begin, I guess? Um, yeah, I was, uh, herded over to seed, burning seed by some friends. Mm-hmm. And I got involved with the artery, um, there pretty much straight away. Mm-hmm. I knew that that was kind of my home and where I wanted to be, and I brought art to my very first burn.

[00:02:00] Mm-hmm. Very ambitious and, um, pretty much have always brought, um, an art piece to every burn I've attended. Mm-hmm. Um, it's always been one of my, yeah. Little areas. Mm. That I just love participating and gifting to the event. Mm-hmm. Um, and then, yeah, got very much involved in the artery over there, so when the.

Board, I guess we're starting to look around and having conversations with people. Mm-hmm. Um, in Victoria. Mm-hmm. Uh, about, you know, forming this thing, their own little burn. My name, made it onto the list, fortunately, and I had some chats with Marty and, um, yeah. Managed to weasel my way into the artery.

PY: So, so, so, so you were, for here, you were sort of pegged as the, as the art person from the, from the get go for Underland.

Do I have that right?

Danae: I, I was, I was, I was definitely mentioned as someone who was very keen to support and be a part of the artery. Um, Cavalla, she started off with our very first burn, sort of managing it, Uhhuh, but, um, [00:03:00] she found. Other priorities. Family life. Yeah. Get busy. Needed to take over. So, so I managed to, uh, yeah, step up and, um, take over the role for the moment.

So absolutely loving it, loving, um, the opportunity, I guess, to inspire and motivate and make connections amongst the sort of artistic community here at Underland.

PY: Mm. And that is one of the big issues, isn't it? How much time people, because it, you know, it's all gifting, it's all volunteer labor, um, you know.

Mm. There's no, there's no paid position. So it's, it's, you know, how much time do people have to volunteer at the event year round? Um, and how many different, how many different hats can they wear, um, in an event that's just sort of, you know, small and, and growing. It's a, it's an interesting issue to, to look at and, um, think about.

So, okay. Well, let's, let's talk about all things art. And artery. So the artery, if I remember correctly, kind of [00:04:00] it, it sort of co-located with center camp these days. Isn't the art artery and center camp are, are kind of one.

Danae: Yeah. Yeah. That's sort of, um, how we've kind of managed to share our resources.

Mm-hmm. Again, like you mentioned, we are very small.

PY: Mm-hmm.

Danae: So we certainly have to think about how each of our departments can kind of Yeah. Share resources. And, um, last year event turned out to be a really good CoLab between, um, the center camp space and the artery space and, um, making sure that that space was always kind of engaged with certain activities, whether the center camp had it as a open space for people to take their own thing or they were running, um, activities.

And then artery was also running activities or being a hub space for people to come and, um, see, and we had a little comfy corner with our documentation project running in the corner. So, yeah, that was, that was a really nice, um, yeah, working together effort to activate that space.

PY: Yeah, it was a nice space, wasn't it?

It was cozy. Yeah. It was kind [00:05:00] of like a little focal point where people could sort of dribble to at, at quite a, you know, like at, at most hours of the day and just sort of, you know, see what's going on there kind of thing.

Danae: Yeah. And, and it really was, yeah, that was a big push, um, in previous years, I suppose.

Yeah. The center camp hadn't really had a champion, somebody to sort of take it over. So, um, yeah, with the coming on Beck really taking ownership of that space and making sure that it did have, that it was actually central to the event and it did, it provided that lovely, I don't know, like neutral zone and amongst all the theme camps and everybody's spaces here was this, nobody's in particular space, but it's everybody's space.

Mm. And um, yeah, I think that's what made it really nice.

PY: That's right. I saw people coming in and just using it almost like a little pop-up space and doing their own thing. They're like little workshops and little art things and, and that kind of stuff.

Danae: Yeah, absolutely. And there was even, yeah, activations that people had applied for grants through the ignition grants to run.

And they were like, they'd say to me, be like, where can I do [00:06:00] run it? And it'd be like, center camp, center camp, let's put it there. Okay.

PY: Cool. Well, we do have, uh, Bek scheduled to come on the podcast as well to specifically talk about center camp stuff.

Danae: Fabulous. Yes.

PY: On the artery, who are you looking for?

What sort of, um, volunteers do you need throughout the event or, and perhaps before and after the event as well to help, um, get the artery running nicely.

Danae: Yeah, absolutely. Um, because we are a small event, I guess, um, there isn't a lot of heavy lifting to do pre-event.

PY: Mm-hmm.

Danae: Myself and Jenny Red are currently sort of, um, she's like my two IC, I guess.

Yep, yep. And we're kind of managing the. Out of year, um, things that we need to do. Mm-hmm. Although we're always keen to have more diversity or more people involved in like the grants process. Yes. So that's really that process where we sort of, we meet and we decide what are the criteria Yes. For artists to receive [00:07:00] grants.

Yeah. We then receive all the applications. We go through a process of judging, I guess, based on our criteria. And yeah. At the moment it's kind of the two of us and it's certainly, I think the grants are funded by the community. That's 10% of the ticket sales are going towards the grants. So I certainly would love to see some more people reaching out and wanting to be involved, perhaps in that process, um, to make that selection process a little bit more diverse.

Yeah. Um. So I, I would certainly appreciate if anyone had some time to be a part of that process. Um, where we decide it's very, very small commitment. You are looking at probably, uh, an hour long discussion, usually on a weekend or some time when we're, um, all mutually available. Um, I've gone about sort of creating a system that does make it quite easy, you know, a lovely Excel spreadsheet Yep.

So that we can all go through their criteria mm-hmm. And make sure that it is all our decisions are very justified, um, for why we've allocated [00:08:00] the, um, money to those certain, um, artists. So there's that aspect. Mm-hmm. So that's the year round aspect. Mm-hmm. Um, there is, I suppose, another non-grant related year-round aspect, which is really just supporting and reaching out to people who have expressed interest in bringing, building, making, doing art.

PY: Ah, that's right.

Danae: And. Kind of being a person with ears in the community that can connect people and listen out for those opportunities and be like a sounding board or kind of a middleman. Someone who, you know, like someone in another department for instance, will just be like, oh, somebody mentioned to me, you know, this person, they're interested in doing this.

Yeah. And then I get to be kind of the conduit who kind of helps to go, oh, I know somebody who you should talk to, or, oh, yep. I know somebody who's got some skills that maybe you'd find helpful for your art project. So yeah, it's, it's a, it's another good point of reference that the artery can kind of be to kind of guide and direct people to all the other people in the [00:09:00] community they may not know about, who have skills, who have, um, abilities, who have passion or desire or time time's one of the big ones.

Mm-hmm. Um, to help and dedicate towards Yeah. Other people's projects.

PY: Yeah. I can see how that's, uh, that's an important one because. You know, art activity doesn't just happen in the months leading up to the event. Some people are building, you know, like some people will be, probably have minds stuffing their minds now for 2026 that they're sort of going, oh, you know, how can I Yeah.

Make that happen. So it's, it's a year round activity for some people.

Danae: Yeah. And especially for some of those ongoing art projects as well. Um, which is really lovely to see sort of projects that perhaps are coming back time and time again. Yes. But they're re reimagining, reversioning, reiterating, and so yeah, people really investing, 'cause we know resources are challenging, um, you know, money, all the usual things that are involved in building a [00:10:00] piece of art.

But, um, yeah, if you can kind of. Reinvent what stuff you already have to work with. Mm-hmm. Then certainly, yeah, you're ticking a lot of sustainability things. Mm. Um, which of course we all love to, to hear about as well.

PY: That's right. Stuff can come back. We don't necessarily need to to burn stuff there.

There is art can come back. Um,

Danae: yeah, yeah. Like we've got one at Underland that's been there since, um, we started at our new site in Paradise. Oh, right. The, the, the Bird's Nest

PY: and yes, that's the fun one.

Danae: That's, that's been there, that's been there three times now in its different incarnations. Um, and very generously the landowner has allowed the main stability poles of that project to remain, um, on site year round.

And then, um, Dan comes back and checks that it's all still good. Makes some adjustments. Puts up his next version of what that space will be like. So, yeah. No, that's really lovely to see.

PY: I've only seen that one late at night. For some reason. I seem to [00:11:00] crawl up there or crawl around it or see who's in there at about 2:00 AM in the morning.

Danae: I didn't get to last year. Yeah. I'm, I went to make the pilgrimage, but somebody was sleeping in it and I was just like, oh, I won't disturb them. But

PY: I, I think at night it's one of those things where you need a certain critical number of people to make it warm enough. That's the pro tip. It's like, okay, we're gonna go snuggling there, but it's gotta be part of your five minimum,

Danae: at least. Yeah.

PY: Depending on how cold you run. So, okay. That's good. I didn't know that one came back time and time again, but that's cool.

Danae: Yeah.

PY: Okay. All right. I think, I think perhaps just to, to tangent a bit, 'cause we've, we've got time to, I think for, you know, we're talking about volunteering here, but for artists, I think one of the positive things to mention is that there is really good support if you are a first time artist.

And you're applying for a grant, you're not quite sure what to do, and you're a bit hesitant about what you can make and what resources and advice is available. In the, in the community, it's there, the support is there, mentors [00:12:00] are there, and someone to help you walk through that process. Um, that, that's all there, there, which I think is great.

Danae: Yeah, no, I think, um, definitely one of the roles that I've taken on, and it's certainly whoever steps into the artery role definitely gets to make it their own. Mm-hmm. Right. You know, whoever will come after me will, you know, take on board what I've developed and built and, you know, things like that. But then they can choose what kind of areas and things that they choose to focus on.

Um, one of the things that was important to me, and certainly that I've tried to focus on and that I think was really quite successful last year and through last year's iteration, was the mentorship focus that I tried to put out there and about connecting people and, you know, like. Getting, um, top and going like, Hey, you've got a Dome Sound bath project and you've got a dome soundscape project and you've got a dome thing.

Hey guys, I think you should all kind of talk together. Yep. And yeah. And start, you know, like maybe collabing or, you know, oh, hey, [00:13:00] um, you've got a really cool project sort of going on, but it sounds like you're, you're missing sort of an engineering sort of perspective. You know, I'd like to tee you up with, you know, one of our build guys from site who you know, is in this, just to have a little bit of a chat.

Um, yeah. That was really important to me that artists and people who wanna bring stuff to the event know that they don't have to do it alone, that they can, there is a wealth of knowledge and skills within, even though our community is small, we've got some very highly skilled people and talented people in there that really can Yeah.

Offer some of those pearls of wisdom. To help alleviate some of your concerns, worries, sticking points. Mm. In your project? Um, sort of design and delivery. Yeah.

PY: Mm, no, a great, a great way to, for people to jump in and get started and, um, you know, have a bit of handholding along the way. I think bit of support.

Danae: Yeah. And then, um, I suppose, yeah, going back onto the volunteer train, [00:14:00] um, I sort of outlined the year round kind of things, so if anyone's interested in that side, but then there's on the ground yes. At the event. And, um, this is probably where this year I would particularly, um, find it valuable to have some hands on the event site helping out with the artery.

PY: Mm-hmm.

Danae: So Jenny's going to be, um, doing, you know, sort of lead, I guess, um, for the event. I won't be able to attend this year's event. Ah, damn. She's gonna be new for me. Yep. Yeah. Gonna have to hand over the reins and just yeah. Be happy with all my pre-prep work.

PY: Mm.

Danae: Um, but yeah, we'd really love some extra pairs of hands.

Um, no skills necessarily required. Yep. Don't even have to be that passionate about. I guess. Okay. It helps. Okay. It might help. It's nice. Yep. It's, it's nice to be, but um, yeah. Somebody who's looking for, you know, uh, a pretty light on, uh, volunteer role on event. [00:15:00] We're looking at setting up our little artery space.

Um, there's the potential to maybe run a arty type workshop Yeah. Which I'm happy to guide you through. I've already got all the materials and the instructions and things like that there. Or you can come up with your own. Yep. Um, depending on what level of involvement you'd like. Um, if you can come pre-event, there's a little, um, bit of work where we go around the event site and we tag and flag all the spaces where we want the art to be.

PY: Yes. Place them.

Danae: Um, so when the artists arrive yeah. That we can, yeah, place them and they feel comfortable and know where they're going to be. And a lot of that work I will be doing pre-event. Um, but yeah, we need someone on the site a couple of days prior, um, to maybe help out with that. Yep. And otherwise, yeah, it's usually just a day afterwards.

Again, packing down our little space, um, making sure we're all moop approved, especially our art spaces. So I usually do a lap of the site, go and check all the places where the art was placed, make sure that [00:16:00] there's any moop, take notes of anything because our art grants, um, do have a proviso. And that if, um, an art space, an artist, um, area does not sort of pass the moop check, then they don't receive the final disbursement of their grant kind of thing.

So it's a very, very important step, um, to making sure that yeah, everyone's adhering to the, um, sort of, you know, moot free policies that our event wants to. Adhere to.

PY: Okay. So for those who are planning a glitter bomb art piece, um, yeah. Maybe not for,

Danae: if you just, if you wanna sacrifice that 20% Sure, sure.

And piss off a whole lot of people who have to clean it up. Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

PY: LNT team won't be, um, won, won't be your friends. The will be coming up.

Danae: They'll be very unhappy. And it also will affect your sort of, I guess, your ability to apply for grants in the future. Yes. We will know your artist and your team and things, so Yeah.

PY: Yeah. You don't wanna be known as the glitter, the glitter guy. That's for sure. [00:17:00] Okay. So, so you need someone, ideally a couple of days before, uh, one day after there's a bit of placement activities, some workshop activities potentially, and, and I, I guess this, you know, this doesn't need to just be one person.

This could be split up over a couple of different volunteers.

Danae: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Hopefully if we get enough sort of interest and someone's got availability just to do the pre-event, someone's got availability just to do the event and just do the post. Um, and Jenny will be there with you the whole time.

So you're sort of, you know, not doing it on your own. You'll be, uh, tracking around in a pair probably. And, um, yeah, it's, it's very light on and you get to enjoy a lot of the event. Uh, go around, take photos, take lots of photos of the art is always a, uh, a fun one. If we've got any photographers out there, um, we'd always love to connect with you too and get some beautiful photos of all our artworks out there.

PY: This sounds like a good role for someone who, you know, could this even be a role for someone who's, you know, it's their first time [00:18:00] at an event like this and wants to kind of, you know, get involved and have an excuse to do things and see things and

Danae: Yeah. Something like that. It actually would prompt, yeah, it would prompt you to get around and make sure you see everything and do anything.

Um, especially if you were sort of Yeah. Um, part of the art tour that we usually like to run.

PY: Yes. The art tour.

Danae: Yeah. Um, which goes around to some of, um, our artworks, Pixa Pass and, uh, navigate some people through that and or yeah, the photography, uh, aspect, if you wanted to be our sort of art photographer, um, it would definitely inspire you to make sure you're getting around and seeing the different facets of those artworks and of those, um, activities, part of the ignition grants Mm.

That are running as well around the event.

PY: Okay. So, yeah, for people who haven't been before and are, you know, maybe a bit hesitant, then this one, you know, might be a good one. Absolutely. Yeah. I think it's always, you know, I, my personal view is that you always get a lot more out of the event by doing a bit of behind the scenes volunteering work.

Danae: It's kind like a mission, isn't it? Yeah. [00:19:00] It's like you've, you've been given your own little mission

PY: and you sort of get to see a little bit, you know, un under the hood. How do things really work? What makes it, what makes it work? Well. Yeah, it's, um, yeah, I, I think it's a lot of fun. Okay.

Danae: And you definitely get to meet a lot of people, I suppose, through the artery as well.

You get to connect not only with the artists, but you know, you're going to be talking with and connecting with spam crew because you might be needing to, you know, do some help working out some equipment for somebody, um, to do some trenching for their artwork or other sorts of equipment that we might need.

Yeah. You pretty much get to know everyone on site when you're in the artery team because they all kind of flow through or you require something from them. Yeah. Make a, make a mission down to the gate, um, to, you know, make sure that the giant steel sculpture fish makes it through. Yep. Yeah.

PY: The more I think about it, this is, this is a really good one because yeah, you do get to talk with all [00:20:00] the different people on all the teams, and if you do wanna jump off and do something different, you know, you can, this can be a good way to sort of have a little bit of a spy on what.

All the different teams do and then sort of go, okay.

Danae: Yeah. Get a little bit of a, a low down. Yep. Yeah.

PY: It's a, it's a little less kind of monolithic than some of the, some of the other teams, so, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Very cool. Any last messages that you'd like to, to shout out to potential volunteers or just people who are looking to come this year?

Yeah, it's, it's a shame that you won't be there, but, um, we will, we'll be trying to hold, hold the fort together, uh, without you,

Danae: um, I guess, yeah. No contact at artery at, um, common Arts. Mm-hmm. And basically Oh yeah. And on the slack as well as another way to grab me Dene. Yep. Yep. And we also have our own channel on the slack all things artery.

Mm-hmm. And yeah. But the, keep an eye out on the [00:21:00] Cav newsletter and on the socials. 'cause that's where we do most of our posting, particularly small art grants are open right now. Mm. Ignition grants are open right now.

PY: Oh, that's right. We didn't talk about that. Okay. So, so art, art grants are, are somewhat explanatory.

There's small art grants. Figure grants, they're kind of

Danae: yep,

PY: as as they read, but I think ignition grants are a little bit perhaps unique to this event. Can we just say a little, few words on those?

Danae: Yeah, absolutely. Um, so our ignition grants were really born of a desire to support, particularly community engagement.

PY: Mm.

Danae: We certainly love our theme camps and what they do and they offer and things, but we identified that people might want to do and create. I guess activities, events, things like that, that theme camps do, but they're not part of a theme camp. So we identified that there was a gap there, um, in being able to offer people support to run and do these engagements, um, whilst not being part of a theme camp.

[00:22:00] So we've created this stream of funding. You can get grants up to $500. Mm-hmm. And essentially we just want to know about how is it Yeah. Building community. Mm. Um, the real focus is, um, how does your proposal idea? Mm. And you know, it's, it's not necessarily just a happening or an event. It could almost be something that actually, um, a new inno I use always the example, I use an innovative way to transport water around site or bring power generation to site.

Um, so yeah, it's just unique. Experiences or services or ideas, um, we wanna leave it quite open Yeah. To interpretation exactly what kind of thing you could come up with that we could possibly support financially wise. Yeah,

PY: that's a really good one. 'cause I, I kind of had it in my mind that it was, you know, if you wanted to do a workshop, you get some money for materials or whatever, then you go use [00:23:00] Cent account.

But it's, it's quite broad. It sounds like that if someone's got something in their mind where they're thinking, I'd really like to do that this year because I think this could work better. And it's sort of a bit broader than just, you know. Just your immediate crew. If it can help the community as a whole, then it sounds like that might be something that could, you could put your hand up for, for a grant.

Danae: Absolutely. Yeah. No, we definitely want to, um, yeah, make sure that everyone has that opportunity, I guess, to, um, engage in their medium. You know, not necessarily everybody wants to run a workshop or build a piece of art, but they still wanna, commun com contribute in some meaningful way for from them.

PY: Yep. I guess that's what, what, what their gift is, what whatever that, whatever the thing that they do.

Danae: Yeah. You know, you've got that, that certain brain that think in that certain way and you've going like, I really want to Yeah. Do this, but it's a bit left field then Yeah. We, we wanna hear about it and support that. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

PY: This sounds like a really good one. I'm, I'm glad we remembered to talk about this.

Danae: Cool. Yeah. [00:24:00] Squeeze it in. Yep. In a little bit of time.

PY: Pop, pop it in there. Yep. It's more, it's a little bit more than just the volunteers chat through this chat. That, that's all good. We we're flexible here on, on the podcast.

Danae: Nice.

PY: Okay. Um, have, have we forgotten anything today or, uh, I think that's about it.

Danae: No, I think I've done the contact details.

We've done what we do. What we do. Yep. And, um, yeah, looking forward to hopefully hearing from some people. How many people you got listening to this?

PY: We don't know yet. I'm hoping. Oh, okay. It's, it, it's early days. I'm hoping that it works as an effective volunteers call out and I'm hoping that if it works well, um, we can get other organizations to, to produce, produce their own little episode.

In the lead up to their event, we'll put it on the air as well, um, as their way of doing a, a, a call out, just a, just another way of spreading the word around. So fingers crossed. Brilliant. Yeah, fingers crossed. We get, we'll, we'll get a, we'll get a couple of people.

Danae: We'll put a note in the comms.

PY: Yeah. If that's it.

Volunteers, if you do decide to sign up, tell, tell them the [00:25:00] podcast sent you a lot. Yeah. Tell, tell we sent you. Okay today. Thanks a lot for coming on the podcast today.

Danae: That was lovely chatting with you.

PY: Okay, thanks. Later.

Danae: Bye.

PY: Coming up next center, camp team

Bek. Welcome to the Bonzaar Podcast.

Bek: Hey, PY thanks for having me.

PY: Uh, Bek. For our listeners, can you introduce yourself and tell us what you do at Underland?

Bek: Yeah, sure. I'm the center camp lead at Underland. I'm also mm-hmm. On the Committee for Common Arts Victoria. And I do a little bit of stuff with the community engagement back here in Melbourne, year round.

PY: Okay. Multiple hats. As, as are a lot of people. First, before we talk about, um, center camp, can you tell us a little bit about you? I always like getting people's. Back stories. How did you get started in this little, uh, seeing this little group of people and how long have you been doing it for?

Bek: Yeah, cool. I, [00:26:00] um, started going to Burns in 2017.

I'd been looking in the background a bit before that, but I really started my burner journey in 2017. I went to a regional burn in, um, the US called Scorch Nuts, which is a tri-state burn, um, which is, uh, basically home to Ohio, burners Indiana and Tennessee. So really interesting part of the world. Um, and really interesting small little burn.

Uh, really cute. Then I went to modifyre, then I went to, um, the big burn. Uh, then I went to, you know, the rest is history really. Door just flows on from there. So, uh, blazing swan, burning seed under land, which just flows on from there. So I've been doing this for a couple of years, uh, here in Melbourne since 2020.

Been involved with the Common Arts Victoria. Crew. So yeah, that's me.

PY: Once you start, you just get sucked in.

Bek: Well, it's fun, you know.

PY: That's right.

Bek: Fun, beget fun.

PY: That's right. [00:27:00] That's right. Wouldn't be doing it for any other reason. Okay, let's, let's talk center camp. What is Center camp all about at Underland?

Bek: Yeah, so Center Camp is the heart of the burn. It's, um, a accessible, inclusive space where anyone is welcome. It's not a theme camp. It's really important to differentiate it from all the other camps at Underland. It is a, um, a space that is, um. Provided by the organization. So it's funded by the, um, by ticket sales effectively.

Mm-hmm. Um, we have a large stretch tent. We've got carpet, we've got really yummy cushions, lots of them like a cushion, cushion palace. Uh, we've got some, um, some sounds, some basic lighting. So it's basically a, um, self-contained, uh, sheltered space with all the basics that you would need. Mm-hmm. We are not a doof space.

Mm. It's more of a, um, a workshop space and yeah, it's really chill. If you've ever been to some of the big festivals, there's a little bit like the dry tent vibes, so it's really [00:28:00] laid back. It's a place where you can have a couple of, um, you know, conversation. You can meet your friends there. Um, if you want to.

Do a, a workshop or a performance? You can, and it's open from 10:00 AM till midnight throughout the burn.

PY: That's right. I was gonna, I was gonna ask if it was open 24 hours, but no. Okay. 10 10 till 10 till midnight.

Bek: Well, yeah. Technically anyone can go in there at any time. Mm-hmm. The space is open. We don't have any, we don't have a locked door policy or anything like that.

Um mm-hmm. In terms of the workshops and the performances and things that happen in there, they're between 10:00 AM and midnight, so, mm. That's when you can expect to see something, but you can hang in there in the middle of the night, um, if you want. Yeah, I, I remember it. It's raining.

PY: Um, yes. Very handy if it's raining.

I remember it being, um, a very cozy kind of vibe in there, which was lovely.

Bek: Mm. Yeah. Thanks. That's what we're trying for. Just a welcoming space. Mm-hmm. Not everybody, um, comes to these events with big infrastructure. Not everybody has a gazebo or somewhere to hang out. So, um, it's a really good opportunity for people who, [00:29:00] you know, are coming, um, with the bare basics.

Um, you can hang out there.

PY: Okay. So a shared, a shared space where you can do stuff and hang out?

Bek: Yeah. It's a little bit like a, uh, like a uni share house, lounge room, if you had an experience of that. So yeah, definitely that kind of vibe.

PY: Okay, cool.

Bek: Yeah.

PY: Um, workshops, uh, what sort, what I, I've seen a couple of interesting things actually there in the past.

I've seen a workshop on skydiving. And something on making a basic kind of rope harness to dress someone up in. Um, I've seen a couple of interesting things. Will there be more of the same this year?

Bek: Yeah, it's definitely open to anybody, um, who wants to do anything, um, that they're passionate about. So it could be anything from a a, a improvised dance.

Piece. It could be a, uh, something quite structured, like a lecture. It could be a jewelry making workshop. It could be mm-hmm. Some kind of spiritual thing. It [00:30:00] could be yoga, it could be whatever you want. Um, we've got the basic sound system there with a mixer. So if you wanted to do a gem, you could do that.

Um mm-hmm. If you wanted to thrash out some nineties classics, uh, very welcome to, um, yeah, we just don't advertise it as a DJ space, so, uh

PY: mm-hmm.

Bek: DJs are probably, um, not suited. For the center camp space, there are plenty of other spaces around Underland where you can go and, um, play your set. But at Underland, um, we have two hour workshop slots, so anyone can do anything that they want within the two hours.

Mm-hmm. And as I said, yeah, that would be scheduled between 10:00 AM um, and would need to finish by midnight. And sometimes we have multiple events happening at the same time. So if you're doing something small with a small group, there might be another couple of workshops that could happen concurrently, so.

Mm-hmm. Um. It's a big enough space to have several groups in there if needed. Um, we have a chalkboard with all the schedule of, uh, workshops and activities, [00:31:00] um, updated every day. If you wanted to register to hold a workshop, you just fill in, um, the online form, uh, which is available on the underland, uh au.

Is it, is it au Anyway, it's an Underland website. Yep. It's au mm-hmm. Thank you. Um, yeah, and you just pop in your, your expression of interest. Um, you let us know what you're planning to do. Um, it's really important that you. Consider the, uh, Moy leave no trace, um, aspects of your thing. Um mm-hmm. We don't like there to be any trash left behind.

If you bring it, you need to take it with you. So just keep in mind, um, the, the environmental impact of your, um, of your, of your event, your workshop, whatever. But yeah, you could do whatever you want. It's really an opportunity for people who, as I said, don't have a lot of infrastructure or don't have a connection to a big theme camp and wanna do something.

Um, you can come along and do your thing and then you can promote it. It'll be, it'll be on the, um, in the program. Um, yeah, it's a great way to meet people. It's also a really fun thing to do if [00:32:00] you're a participant. You can learn all sorts of things, so, yeah.

PY: Mm. It's fun just to look at what's on the, what's on the chalkboard that day, you know, because you know, everyone's gonna look at the guide and, you know, sometimes it's not, it's not good to plan things too much.

It's nice just to be able to look at the chalkboard and go, oh yeah, that's on a midday. I'll check that out.

Bek: Exactly. It's, um, something. I don't like looking at my phone either while I'm at the event. So it's, it's nice to have the chalkboard as the destination point with your cup of cup of tea in the morning.

Swing pass, see what's happening, see if there's anything. We also, um, we do have breakfast radio there, uh, which is a uhhuh, like a, a 9:00 AM till 10:00 AM so technically before it opens, it's an opportunity for, um, hosts such as myself and whoever else I can wrangle just to talk about what's coming up at Underland that day.

And we have a chat to, um, participants as they're walking home from their big night out or people going about their day. Okay. Um, we wrangle people in and have a bit of a chat. Um, and that's also where we provide, uh, updates about. [00:33:00] Um, key things like ice delivery, what the weather's doing, if there's any big thing happening that day that we might want to share with people or remind them about things.

Um, yeah, that's another good point. So ICE is sold usually out the front of Center Camp Uhhuh, um, and we have a burn barrel as well, so it is a bit of a destination to, to swing past.

PY: Uh, yeah. I guess we should point out that Centre Camp is located pretty centrally. Centrally, yeah. The whole point.

Bek: Hence the name.

PY: It's, it's kind of on, it's on the sort of the, um, sort of the, how would you describe it? Boulevard, esplan type area. Yeah. And, and it's pretty close to o other sources of main infrastructure, like First Aid and, and Rangers and that kind of thing.

Bek: Exactly, yeah. It's, it's part of the center, camp village and mm-hmm.

Yeah. There's a bit of a village vibe.

PY: Is, is the artery gonna be co-located with, with center camp this year? Is that the plant?

Bek: That, that is the plan. I'm not exactly sure of how it'll work because [00:34:00] Danae and Terry won't be there this year. But there, that is the, the plan until it's not, it makes sense for it to be in there.

So.

PY: Hmm. Okay. So arts, chill out workshops all, all under the one roof, literally.

Bek: That's right. Yeah. And lots of cushions to hang out on if you want as well.

PY: I enjoyed the chai last year. I understand that was an artery thing, but um, when I discovered there was that kind of midnight chai on, I helped myself do a lot of that.

Bek: That's good to hear. Yeah. That was an artery initiative. We might do it this year. We definitely have the urn. It's just about getting all the, all the, um, ducks lined up for that.

PY: Uh, I, I can volunteer to turn the earn on. I know how to do that much, at least.

Bek: Well, there's the whole brewing process as well, right?

Like it's not just Chuck a tea bag, you know, cup

might in cup.

PY: Gotta be careful what you've want once before SP speaking, speaking their, that's right. Yeah. Okay. Um, [00:35:00] vol volunteers, uh, who do you need? What, what would they be required to do to be part of the, the center camp?

Bek: Yeah, so the center camp crew do a range of things, which is pretty easy.

Basically, you hang out in the space and talk to either participants or to workshop hosts and make sure they've got everything that they need. Um, it, it's helpful if the volunteers know a little bit about where things are in Underland. So if someone comes through and asks, oh, you know, where's the first aid?

They should be able to point them to first aid, which is pretty much next door. Um, so answering basic questions. We have lost and found at, uh, center Camp as well. It's basically a box. Anything that gets found gets put in the box and then people can come. To the box and find it themselves. So that lives, that, that, that lives at, um, at center camp, um, basically they're keeping the space pretty tidy, just putting things, um, back where they belong, making sure that no trash gets left behind.

We don't have bins at center [00:36:00] camp. Um, yeah. That's pretty much it. You're just hanging out at the space. Sounds pretty cruisy. Yeah. And the shifts are four hours, uh, in duration. Mm-hmm. Uh, the first one starts at 10:00 AM um, and the last one will finish at midnight. So it's not like it goes all night. So they're four hour shifts.

You're doing it with a buddy? I try to roster people on with somebody else. Mm-hmm. I'm always floating around. I'm never too far if you need me. Yeah. It's, it's pretty chill. It's good for people who wanna meet other people. It does help if you are, uh, reasonably sober. You don't have to be completely sober, like for some of the other, um, teams, but, um, certainly for just for being helpful.

PY: Yeah. And no driving of the vehicle was required for this one?

Bek: No, not at all. You know, I mean, it's fine if you're a little bit dusty or whatever. Um, and yeah, as I said, it's just, it's a nice way to meet people, um, and contribute. Four hours is pretty easy. I mean, basically you could sit on your ass the whole time if you wanted to.[00:37:00]

PY: Literally, this is almost, you could, this, this is, this is a, a role that someone could, if, if someone hasn't even been to one of these events before, this is a, this is a, this is a role, a first time it could do yet.

Bek: Absolutely. Yeah. And you'll, you'll get to know a few people, um, as a result. Mm-hmm. And you might even learn what a thing or two.

Uh, the, the, the crew, the volunteers can participate in the workshops if they want. Yeah. Uh, we also have an opportunity for folks to get involved as set up crew. So you'd, um, ah, come to the site a day before Gates

PY: mm-hmm.

Bek: And help lay out the carpets and the cushions and, you know, a little bit of basic decor.

Mm-hmm. Maybe helping out putting up some lights and maybe a little bit with the audio, but nothing technical. It's pretty easy. Mm. Um, we just need people to help move stuff from A to B and it's pretty light. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And if anything is heavy, then we'll, we'll grab someone's ute to help us with that.

Mm-hmm. But, um, that's the day before, so you get early access. Uh, and then we need a small team to help us with pack down, uh, which happens, [00:38:00] uh, the day Gates. Close. So at the end, the last day of the event, we need people to help out putting things back into storage container, rolling up the carpets. It's pretty basic stuff, but it means that you don't have to leave when everybody else leaves.

You can stay an extra day, uh, which is nice for folks who might wanna take their time coming back to earth and aren't in a massive rush to get back to Melbourne. Um, and there's a nice chill vibe on site when everybody starts to leave, you know? Mm-hmm. It's, that's, that's a good point. It's, that's an opportunity for folks as well.

PY: Yeah. It's like, do, doing this little bit of volunteer work pre and post-event is a good way of kind of, I think it, I think it almost works well if you're a person who's a little bit anxious as well, because some sometimes rocking up to an event where everything's kind of underway and things are happening and you're like, oh, wow.

Gotta set up my tent and work out where to camp and well, my neighbors and all the rest of this stuff. That can be a little bit. [00:39:00] Daunting in a way. So if you can kind of get there early and it's quiet and you're like, okay, where am I gonna put myself? Where things laid out, how can I help a bit? Can I get to know a few people?

That can be like a nice way of kind of easing into the event before things really, you know, kick off and gate opens and everything. So it might be good for someone who wants to, you know, ease into it, ease out of it kind of thing.

Bek: Yeah, I, I think that's a really important point. Uh, if people are interested in signing up to be part of the center camp crew, uh, there will be a link on the Underland website.

Um, you just fill it in and then the crew Wrangler sends you off to the various teams that you might be interested in. You can volunteer for more than one crew at Underland. Mm-hmm. You don't have to be, you know, on only one, you can do more than more than one role if you want. Mm-hmm. Um, so. That's, yeah.

And, um, volunteer applications will be opening, um, from the 1st of July, [00:40:00] which is when tickets go on sale as well. So, yeah, that's coming up soon. Mm-hmm. Um, I guess by the time this podcast goes to air, it will have already opened.

PY: Yeah, probably. Yeah.

Bek: Yeah.

PY: Tickets should be, should be live now on underland au.

Okay. Uh, just trying to think of anything we haven't covered any other requirements for workshops. I know you said they're not really, you shouldn't really be bringing a DJ set. It's not really the right place for it, but live music, jazz sessions, workshops, we don't, we don't have enough live music at events.

I feel. So a bit more live music would be nice.

Bek: Yeah. Look, stand up comedy. If you want to do a spoken word, anything weird and wonderful, it doesn't have to be, uh, perfect either. Sometimes you can, um, sometimes the best things are the, the half baked.

PY: Yep.

Bek: Options.

PY: Doesn't need to be too polished.

Yep.

Bek: Not at all. It's, it could be a chance to try something that you've never done before, either as a leader or as a participant. So, yeah, [00:41:00] it's, the stakes is low, so don't stress about, um, you know, getting it perfect. It's not necessary.

PY: Is it, is that what you like, is that what you like about doing the role? Is it just seeing the random stuff that, that happens, the unexpected things?

Is that what you get out of the, you know, lead, leading the center camp and seeing what happens?

Bek: Yeah. I, I do enjoy watching the magic unfold and seeing, um, people step out of their comfort zone. Uh, I like seeing people, um, feeling like they're part of something. Mm-hmm. It brings out something within them to be contributing to something greater than themselves or trying something new.

I get a big kick outta that. And, um, saying people forge connections and go from being shy and anxious to, you know, having a bit of a strut in their step, a little bit more confidence and, you know, and then over time that develops into something really beautiful and you get to see their true [00:42:00] selves, uh, in that really supportive space.

So I get a big kick outta that. Mm-hmm. And I'll be doing a couple of workshops myself this year, one of which will be a virgin workshop. So that's for, um, folks who've never been to a burn before or have never been to Underland before. So, um, it'll just be an opportunity to ask questions, meet, you know, um, other burners, uh, make connections and, you know, maybe learn a little bit more about burner culture because it can be a little bit intimidating if you don't really know why do you do that, or what happens, what happens when that happens and

PY: mm-hmm.

Bek: It's just an opportunity to learn. Um, and I'm fascinated by culture and, um, those sorts of interactions. Really interesting. Um, so, and I wish I had a, a burner workshop, a virgin workshop to go to when I was, was starting out. But, um, so my, I think this is a, a nice way of helping people get on the same page.

'cause it can be weird, [00:43:00] particularly you're used to go on a festivals and, and you're waiting for something to happen. Uh, and, and you're kicking back at camp going, oh my God, I'm so overwhelmed. I don't know what to do. Um, there is no main stage. I don't know what's happening. Um, you know, it can be a bit strange.

So,

PY: sounds like a, it sounds like a really good idea. I think I am trying and failing to describe how the event works to a lot of people at the moment. So this, this kind of thing is, um, is very much needed. I, I'm trying to explain to a friend, we're gonna do a coffee thing and he's saying. There's gonna be a coffee thing.

They have coffee there. I'm like, well, there will be if we do it. So it's, I'm, I'm failing quite badly, so thank you for, for putting on, um, you know, an event like this. I think it's really needed.

Bek: Yeah. Look, I might pull a couple of other rabbits out of the hat as well. I've got some ideas Percolating, something a bit surprising.

PY: Percolating. Nice.

Bek: Exactly. Yeah. So, you know, you had [00:44:00] some chilled vibes, and again, nice way to meet people in a low stakes kind of way. Um,

PY: low stakes, very chilled.

Bek: Yeah. Acknowledging that not everybody's a massive extrovert, so it's nice to have quiet, quiet, um, more, uh, quality interactions with people.

PY: Hmm. I think, uh, I think when introverts find a space like that, they really value it and they kind of, oh, thank God I found this, this is, this is really my vibe kind of thing.

Bek: Yeah, it's also, I mean, a spot for extroverts to come and play too. Mm-hmm. But I think you'll find at, at many Vern events, it's, it's seems to be a lot of extroverts as it's like, where do I fit in if I'm a little bit quieter and, um mm-hmm.

Yeah. As you say, it's a valuable space and I'm really part, uh, really proud to be part of it. I look forward to meeting all the new volleys and, um, all the new workshop hosts and yeah, this year's gonna be great. We've got a few surprises up our [00:45:00] sleeves, so.

PY: Ooh. Okay. Alright. Well, I guess, um, I guess if you volunteer at, um, centre Camp, you'll get to be a part of those surprises.

So it's, uh, Underland au is the new website now. Um, so that's the best way to, to sign up for, uh, center camp, you think?

Bek: Yeah, look, the email address is centre camp@commonarts.org au. If you wanna get in touch with me directly. Mm-hmm. Otherwise you just go through the, um, the online form, which will be up shortly, if not already, by the time listeners hear this.

And yes, if you are interested in running a workshop, there's a form there too, and mm-hmm. If you've got questions, ask, um, and if I have questions based on your, um, application, I'll get in touch with you and we'll make something, um, we'll figure it out. Most of the time it's pretty easy.

PY: Have, have you, have you ever had to, um, reject a workshop?

Has it ever been too crazy or not app?

Bek: Oh no, it's, it's, it's mainly, it's not so much the [00:46:00] crazy, uh, the crazy's fine. It's the, it's the, the, the commercial boring corporate workshops that people wanna run. Like a marketing Oh, a marketing thing. It's like, hang on a second. This isn't, this is not the right space for you.

It's probably not the right event for you. Underland is, you know, being de commodified and all that. Yeah. So they're the types of events that I've had to say, look, I'm really sorry. Doesn't really fit.

PY: No marketing 1 0 1 0 1, not really, not really the right task for it.

Bek: Uh, yeah, yeah. No, and a couple of other ones similar to that.

It's just like, this is not a corporate conference.

PY: Maybe it's just a, someone's got a bot going around and anything where they can get a speaking gig, it just fills out the form for them. And you are getting, you know, people applying like that. Maybe it's something like that.

Bek: Yeah. I doubt it. I, this seems like somebody wanting to push their product.

That's what it seems seem like to me. Yeah.

PY: Maybe not the right [00:47:00] space. Maybe you're not the right space. Yeah, no. But otherwise, the crazy is welcome.

Bek: Bring it on. And there's always space in the, uh, the schedule. If you, um, decide on the day, oh my God, I'm gonna do this thing, um, yes, we can, we could probably slot you in.

PY: Yes, you could go on the chalkboard and off you go.

Bek: Yeah. And sometimes not even, it doesn't even have to go on the chalkboard. It could just happen. Um, I mean, ideally you put on the chalkboard, but it, it's okay if it doesn't go on the chalkboard. Um, you know, radical immediacy and all that. You wanna do the thing and you wanna do it now, do it at center camp.

PY: Yeah.

Bek: We'd love to have you.

PY: Yeah, that's a really, I, that's a really good idea actually. Um, yeah, I've seen like stuff like that happen before and it's been like, oh, we need a little bit more space for this and this could be the way to do it.

Bek: Yeah. Spontaneity for the win. We got you covered. Thanks PY. It's been great chatting it through with you.

PY: Thanks Bek. Thanks for coming on the podcast. I hope you get a lot of [00:48:00] people volunteering for Centre Camp and having a good time.

Bek: Me too.

Have a good one.

PY: Coming up next is the Effigy Build Crew.

Dylan, welcome to the podcast. How are you this morning?

Dylan: Uh, I'm, I'm good. It's, uh, getting a little wintry, which is, uh, reassuring to some degree given that we're in, you know, the middle of June. Um, I'm finally, it's starting to get cold, but, uh, you know, every day above the ground's a good one. So I'm, well,

PY: yeah, it feels like, uh, it feels like winter is properly here now.

Um, and we're all shivering away, but, um. Well, let's, uh, warm ourselves up by talking about an interesting Yeah. Topic. Uh, can, can you start by, um, introducing yourself to the audience and, uh, telling them, um, what you do at Underland?

Dylan: Uh, yeah, sure. So, um, I'm an, I'm an architect. Um, I run my own, you know, kind of little practice.

Mm-hmm. Um, and I've got, [00:49:00] I don't know, pretty, a pretty deep interest in long-term kind of engagement across art projects, art facades. Uh, some of our architecture is extremely sculptural. Um, so I'm very interested in, uh, design and, you know, sculpture, architecture, purpose and the kind of the, the slightly less prosaic aspects of building and design.

Um. I, I have never been to a burn festival, but I have been to, uh, a number of festivals and I only recently met a lot of the community there. And I've, I've been really thrilled at the, at the kind of the, it's not just non-judgment, but it's, but it's, it's, it's generosity of the community. I'm really, really interested in that.

Mm-hmm. Um, been aware of Burning Man for many years. Mm-hmm. Um, and always kind of looked at it with a kind of awe, really, I guess an admiration at [00:50:00] this mad party and this wild creativity that goes on that sort of speaks to some of those aspects that I like to try and. Kindle in my architecture. This, this, this fire metaphor is gonna keep going.

Isn't it

PY: Started already?

Dylan: Um, yeah, exactly. So look, I was, I was made aware of underland through, through people I've met in, you know, the dance and music community as a, as a Victorian kind of, um, uh, outpost, if you will, of the, of the values of Burning Man. And when I saw that the, there was a call out for, you know, designs and interest in what might be the effigy in the temple.

I, I reached out, didn't wanna overreach, so I, I, I put a little idea in for the effigy and, um, thought this, this, this would be, this would be a, a, a pretty cool vision as part of what I understood around that kind of ceremonial and I think deeply spiritual kind of connection to, to this idea. Hmm. Um, so I'm, yeah, [00:51:00] I thought, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm an architect.

I know makers and designers and installers, and I'm, I'm really used to kind of like drawing and creating and building sculptural kind of art projects for people. Um, never, never, perhaps quite as hands-on as, as this, this particular project sort of demands of me. I can't just do a set of drawings and issue them out to a bunch of people and they all make it, and then I turn up and go, not good enough.

There's no defects inspection, if you will. It's not good enough. Um, and so that's been a real eyeopener for me, this kind of the personal link and the connection to a project that we're designing not to be perfect. Um, because. There's always gonna be, you know, you need, you need a really resilient design that ends up being able to deal with the machinations of the world and the intricacies of the time, and the, you know, the kind of the communal build that ends up occurring.

You've gotta, you've gotta make it so that people can do [00:52:00] what's being asked of them and feel proud of the work and not like, oh, I didn't quite make that perfect. So we've got lots of rough edges in the bits to, to, to help people, you know, kind of do, do a great job without necessarily being draft people.

And, you know, kind of the, the really technically detailed manufacturers that we're, that we're normally used to working with. So it's been, um, it's been really interesting. It's been great to talk to, you know, the, the, the guys from Common Arts Victoria, who've. Done this before and, and, and perhaps not, not necessarily with architects.

So that, so I'm sort of going, oh, I don't, I don't know if I've quite got this right there yet. And, and they're like, well, no, this is, this is great. You know, you're already doing like 12 times better than the, than the best one we've ever had. So, so, so they're kind of relaxed about it. Whilst I'm really nervous about it, 'cause I've never, I've never really done what they're doing and they've never had somebody like me doing, doing the design for them.

So it's been, it's been a, it's been a really great process, really great project. [00:53:00] Um, understanding some of the, you know, skill sets inside common arts and the, and the burner community around safe burns and you know, how to manage conflagration and how do you need accelerants and when do they apply and how do you design the choreography of the fire, which is really, which is something that I, uh, instantly sort of thought of when I put this idea in.

Um, because I have. Growing up in, you know, rural scenarios and spend a little bit of time in England. I've been to burn, I've been to Guy Fawkes, bonfires, and I've done done, you know, quite a number of, sort of mid-winter. Mm-hmm. Semi pagan kind of, uh, you know, kind of celebrations with mul wine and, and, and burning, burning things.

So I understand the power of it and I'm really, really excited about participating.

PY: Hmm. This is really interesting 'cause you are sort of coming at this from kind of a parallel world in a [00:54:00] parallel kind of day-to-day, uh, practice of, of architecture. And now you're sort of, you know, have hit the, the divert on the, the railway track and you're sort of very much zooming over to, to the burner.

Track immersed by, by all the, all the experienced people. Yeah. And, yeah. And so this, so if I understand this correctly, this is actually gonna be your, your first time at a, uh, you know, you, you've been to many festival events, but this is gonna be your first time at a burn event as well.

Dylan: Yeah. So look, I've been to, I've been to one festival, Uhhuh, I went to Interstellar, uh, last year.

Yeah. Which was eyeopening and, and mind blowing and wonderful. Mm-hmm. Um, so yes, it's my first burn. Mm. It'll be an effigy burn. Mm. It'll also be my birthday, so,

PY: oh, it's crazy. This is, so many first times,

Dylan: I know this a little, this is a Venn diagram that no longer can work with only circles. It's, we need triangles to make this Venn diagram work.

Um, now it's been, [00:55:00] it's been really interesting. I've, I've done through the architectural career, quite a lot of work advocating for timber and timber to be used in buildings. And I've been doing that for. I don't even wanna, you know, it's gonna be 20 years I've been trying to advocate for people to sort of build timber into the construction methodology.

And the wild thing about that is no matter how many conferences you go to and your timber engineering and you're looking at mass timber, there's an overarching. Kind of positioning that, that says, we are telling people about how timber doesn't burn. So we are doing fire tests and char layers and showing resilience and building, building, you know, kind of fit for purpose kind of structures after fire and all that sort of stuff.

And we are, and everything we do is about stopping it from burning. And this time I'm doing a, I'm making a thing that I'm actually designing to burn. Yeah. And to burn [00:56:00] beautifully, to consider light thin timbers and how they curl and go first, as opposed to framing timbers that, that, that, that take longer and remain.

And what, what's the, what's the timeline of the burn and how do we make it not just a thing that burnt, but actually a thing that burnt in layers? So it's a bit, it's a bit like designing fireworks almost. Do you know what I mean? How, what comes first? How does that come second when this, when it, when it's, when the things collapsed?

How does it finally feel? You know, like, what, what's the shape of the fire? What's the timeline of the fire? And if you could set it to music, when do you want this to happen and when do you want that to happen? So that's been a really, really, um, I, I get really enthusiastic about that

PY: when, when it, when it comes to those sort of decisions about, about how the thing is built.

In such a way that it's, you know, not only aesthetically pleasing, but it, it's, it's gonna burn it and look a certain way. What's your feeling at the [00:57:00] moment on, you know, looking ahead to the build, how many of those decisions can be made now ahead of time and, and what's gonna have to be made on site?

What's gonna have to be a flexible decision? What's gonna have to be a consultative decision? I, I remember, um, you know, last year, um, I was, uh, working on, I was helping for art project ahead of time and it was, you know, I was trying to do some work on the computer one night and outside I, I just couldn't concentrate 'cause there was endless screams of delight where the team were calibrating their accelerants.

Working out at sort of get, you know, coming down to the final days working with, in this case the temple leads, to talk to her about, okay, this is the sort of effect if we put this type of accelerant. And they would, they would demonstrate that to her. And there was like, everyone go, Ooh, that's a, you know, and, and 'cause you know, she, she wasn't experienced in that area and need Yeah.

And, and, [00:58:00] but, uh, had the support of, you know, the, the team to, to help her with that. Yeah. Um, now I imagine you are, you know, as you've said, you're, you are not usually making things with in mind to go whoosh. So you know, some of those things you, you won't have seen before. So how, how are you feeling now about, you know, what, how much you can do in your head and how much you're gonna have to be, you know, perhaps literally three days beforehand on site?

Imagine maybe that's a level of uncertainty you don't usually have to, to deal with.

Dylan: It's pretty thrilling. I mean, I look.

As an architect, we, we, we know, you know, less and less about more and more until we know nothing but about everything. And in all of the work I've done around stopping fire. If I turn all of that thinking around and play the movie backwards, I still understand.

I understand the nature of accelerants and the [00:59:00] density of timbers and the layering, and the, I've got a good, you know, kind of general feel for that. And where I'm, where I'm excited is that, that when I put forward a little bit of an idea to the, to the, you know, the conflagration experts, they're, they're able to.

Um, respond to, to, to the desire or the, or the, or the vision that I've had and go, ah, okay, if you wanna get that kind of effect, this is the technical way that we could do that. This might be a paraffin. Mm-hmm. Or this might be a, you know, we might be able to use a petroleum here, or we might be able to soak that material in a thing that actually slows it down when it burns and gives you a, a, a kind of an effect here.

So I put forward an idea and, and the team very much kind of come back with it. Expertise and experience and sort of offer up some potential pathways, which then lets me go, haha. That's really, that's great. Let's, I'll, I'll embed, I'll embed that thinking into this particular component. But, [01:00:00] um, it's, it's really, I, I don't work in a way that says I have a vision and it shall be this and everything else is wrong, but it's very much like, whoa, what if it was kind of like this and could we make, could we turn some things on and have, like, I've been w Heaths Robinson was a big part of my childhood and I'm not sure if you know him, but as an English kind of graphic artist who drew these kind of wildly complex machines made from bits of string and forks and kettles, making steam paddles go around to, to, to do, you know, absurd things.

But, but being able to build into. Into the effigy components that are actually designed upon burning to move or activate In a way, it's gonna be a bit, something completely facet. Well, I, I hope, look, I hope so. This is one of the, this is one of the potentially shed ideas when everything's coming to the wire.

And, you know, at the end of the day, this vision, [01:01:00] you know, I'll be happy just to get something there that I can burn. That, that, that's one of the things that we do in the design process is we're trying to consider every stage of its fabrication, its installation, its burn, its collection, it's, you know, where we get the materials from.

We're trying to tap into all of the waste streams that we see in, in the industry that we're connected to. Um, so that we can, you know, really be true to those, those value propositions around the, around around the burner community. Um, we're doing, we're trying to put as much accur as. Accuracy as we can into the, into the fundamental components that then lets you have as resilient as possible a decision making process that ends up getting it to be somewhere like what we imagined.

PY: Mm. I I'm really curious to, to be on site and kind of precariously vicariously what, what you go through this, this build process and see you meeting all the, [01:02:00] the different teams that you haven't interacted with before as this. Yeah. As, as, as you get closer and closer to, um, to completing the build and, and, uh, and then looking to the, to the burn.

I think it's gonna be, uh, it, it's gonna be interesting for you.

Dylan: I, I have no doubt. It's already interesting.

PY: I, I kind almost want it to, to, to be on the building team for this one myself, just to kind of, um. It'd be, oh God, it would be almost great if, if we had like a little doco team following you around

Dylan: telling the story of how you build.

This would be a wonderful one. I've got an auntie, I'm yet to hit her up, but she's a documentary filmmaker and I might say, Hey, what, what do you reckon? Could you reckon you could, you know, throw a bit of time at this? She's currently doing something on the people who save animals who've been reported as being found on the road, which would be a bloody hard job to make a video of.

So this would be perhaps something a little lighter. A more, A little bit more, yeah.

PY: This would be the cheer up project after.

Dylan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like a warm crackling fire through winter.

PY: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So [01:03:00] yeah, it, so maybe if, if something can sort of, you know, capture where you are now and then into the final weeks of the planning that, that all the way through, I think that'd be a very,

Dylan: yeah.

PY: Yeah. That'd, that'd be a good, yeah. Yeah.

Dylan: Obviously there'd need to be some pretty serious permission forms or like controlled cameras, if ever you were gonna shoot the burn because

PY: Yeah, there's, there's a lot of issues about concern, community, all of that sort of stuff. Um, how you gonna shoot it? Can you shoot it in such a way that, um, people's faces can be obscured and.

Depth of field, et cetera, et cetera.

Dylan: Yeah. Well, it's the double-edged sword of AI, right? We could equally make everybody look like one person, or we could identify them and their social media instantaneously. We could manipulate the thing. I look, I know that there's going to be the potential for shooting it safely and you know, with consent, that that doesn't mean you, you, I know that, you know, photographers exist at these things.

So it would be possible. I mean, I wanted, uh, there's a [01:04:00] part of this, I guess. The idea is we wanna build a little bit of excitement and interest, and I've sought approval from the Underland board and all of that sort of stuff. Normally the effigy is a secret. It's really only revealed at the end of, yeah, at the end of the sort of, you know, when the, when the, when the element is when, when the festival opens.

Really? Yeah. They've let me, they've given me permission to, to talk it up a little bit to describe, oh, that's interesting. What, what we're doing.

PY: Okay. So, um, so spoiler one, for people who don't want to tune out. Yeah. Stop listening now

Dylan: if you don't wanna, if you don't wanna hear what this might be,

PY: I, I'm on site early, but usually I stop myself from walking up there.

Dylan: Well, look, let me tell you about the, the inspiration is, um, a lot of our, a lot of our projects, a lot of our architecture, a lot of our buildings comes from nature. We're very interested in biological systems and networks and things. And for me, I got an instant picture when I started wondering what this effort could be to create a serpent.

So it's a, it's a [01:05:00] serpent that is. When you look into serpents, they are the global creature of dreams and mythology from indigenous cultures, rainbow serpents through to hundreds and hundreds of other cultures and religions, philosophies, guilds. The serpents always in our mythological structure. This year is also the lunar year of the snake.

Mm. And that is, you know, as a symbol, it is a symbol of, of rebirth, of transformation. You know, the shedding of the skin, the, the, the, the serpent's kind of ability to shed the old and become transformed. Mm. It's also a symbol of, of, of fear, of and uncertainty. And I think if you were to, you don't need to shove a thermometer very hard up the up the a of the world right now to determine that there's a rock load of fear and uncertainty going on.

It's about being aware, it's [01:06:00] about being alert. The serpents rattle is about looking with intent and understanding what's around you. And for me, this, this. Serpent is not any one particular one of those serpents. It is not a rainbow serpent. It is all serpents. It's the nature of that relationship between humanity and this creature that's written about into ancient, ancient times to give us, I guess, a sense of this, you know, connection to those things that are.

Not purely social or written, but are deeply, deeply entwined into the, into the kind of the, the, the, the, the, our guts, if you will. Um, as to, as to how they are. So, you know, snakes are wild. They're born from eggs. They shed their skin. They, yeah, they kind of, they're Jungian [01:07:00] philosophy representing the other, you know, snakes are, uh, are symbols of caution.

You know, wait a minute, am I aware? Am I alert? Am I context? Am I making the right, am I treading in the right spot that can, you know, represent this kind of encounter with the mythic and the alien? And yet they're entwined in the, you know, licious rod, which has the two snakes intertwined as the symbol for medicine and health.

Mm-hmm. You know, and healing this. There's a sense of eternity around them. The, the, the boros, which is the symbol of a snake biting its own tail. Mm-hmm. In that, in that, in that infinite kind of, um, composure. And so for me, there was just a, you know, there was a natural kind of set of interesting psychological, mythological, biological chronological, um, and sociological elements in this serpent that, that, that were really great.

This thing is gonna stand about six meters high. So it's, it's coiled on the ground and it stands with [01:08:00] its head in the air and it's clad in, um, waste timbers of, um, different multicolored species veneers. So we can actually build scales of color. On the, on the serpents body. And, um, I'm really excited about this idea of being able to kind of have all of these scales.

They're really, they're really resilient. They're really forgiving to how they get laid on so that the form of the snake tends to kind of normalize itself with the addition of these things. Mm-hmm. And hopefully through the, through the, through the festival, we're gonna have some leftovers of these.

People might want to, you know, write a little message, say bye-bye to someone they, they, they, they miss or say bye-bye to someone that they wish they could miss or whatever that might be. They said. That, that they can fix those scales onto the serpent itself and let them go up. Not taking the temple's role as that place for those deeply spiritual connections, but it's about, [01:09:00] about building a little bit of a connection to what this, what this element element might be.

So yeah, I'm, I'm pretty excited by it. Everybody we're showing it to is like, whoa. That's, you know, loopy and crazy. 'cause as architects we've got access to some really great tools to get, you know, algorithms building us kind of elements. So it's really fluid. It doesn't look like a, you know, the, you know, the old snake Rubik's cube?

What, you know, the kind of Rubik's cube that sort of, you could do, it's very, uh, sort of low poly type of It's all cry. Yeah. Yeah. It's like an eight bit snake. So this is, this is ab, this is an HD snake. There's it's fluid and it, and it s and it's, and it, and it's made from timber, but it's. But it's a, a fluid and, and formally kind of beautiful thing.

So yeah.

PY: I like, I like that as a sort of a continuity of the designs that we've had so far because I, I think that's one thing that set the underland effigies apart from others. They are [01:10:00] very, very fluid and very natural and kind of, a lot of them textured really beautifully. Yeah. Textured. And I think your scales will be a, sort of a continuation of that, that sort of textual theme.

Dylan: Yeah. Very interested, very interested in how that all, how that all comes together. It's been a, it's been a unique process to design a building a, a sculpture and element not to last in fact, not just to be temporary and then pulled down, but to design something to be burnt. Mm. And, and so the choreography of that burn is.

Something that we're really interested in and, and is kind of informing the methodology of the build and how do we fabricate and where do we put fuel loads in and how do we, how do we run lines through that, that, that help us actually, you know, kind of articulate and, and, and, and choreograph that that kind of what essentially is gonna be, you know, I don't know how long it's gonna take to ultimately burn.

Maybe it's gonna take, you know, 40 minutes or something, but maybe [01:11:00] it's only gonna take 15. I don't, this is where, this is where, this is where you, you've gotta design that, that, yeah. Yeah. You've gotta design that fireworks show so that it has a beginning and a middle and an end and it, and it, and it, and it, and it actually naturally closes, you know, naturally goes through its process and brings you to the completion.

Something I'm really, really interested in conducting.

PY: Interesting. Okay. So we've got a very good picture of, of. What the project is, is gonna look like and the, the ideas and the concepts behind it. Um, for those who wanna volunteer, maybe let's, maybe let's fill in some of the nuts and bolts. Yeah. Um, and I think I can, I can help with some of these details here.

Now as far as time commitments go, the core event dates are the 25th to the 29th of September. But my understanding is that usually build team will be on site for at least a week [01:12:00] ahead of time. Is, is what I've seen him before. Is is that kind of what you're expecting this time?

Dylan: Yeah. Look, I, i, I'm hoping to, I, I can really only be physically on site for sort of the four days prior.

Mm-hmm. Um, but um, we're also looking for a team to help us in the lead up to, that's right. That onsite time. So not everybody needs to, I'm not gonna turn up and go, right, we've got nothing and now I've got a bunch of stuff and we're gonna build this god damn snake. Um, we are gonna, we're gonna be prefabricating some components that, that we're gonna find a site for.

To actually start, you know, be fitting some of the scales onto these kind of components that we're fabricating so that the snake, the time on site is minimized really to some foundation work, some preparation, and then assembling, assembling components and kind of like, you know, [01:13:00] stitching them together.

Um, which is what I'm really, you know, it's part of our architectural background anyways. Less time on site is more effective 'cause people don't need to drive three hours and come back and you, you can do a lot of this in a controlled environment. And so we're, we're looking for, and you know, I think anyone who's interested reach out to Common Arts Victoria 'cause they've got a really great distribution network of making sure people can, you know, of aligning tasks with skills so that people can still learn about things.

And if you're interested, you know, you don't, you don't need to be an expert at anything. You just need to have enthusiasm and competency ultimately to, to be able to contribute.

PY: That's a, that's a really important point. I, I think we should pause on there because it, you know, it's easy to think, oh boy, I need to be from a trade background to be able to, to do this stuff. I really need to be a chippy to be able to, but this can be a good way for people to, who don't have that background. To get in. Yeah. And, um, you know, get a few of those, those skills so you can, you know, you don't Yeah. Necessarily need to be either from the [01:14:00] trade background or from the, the Artie or background or from the architectural

Dylan: Yeah.

PY: Background. It's, it's a chance to, to jump in and get in involved.

Dylan: You need to have an interest in making, you know, that's, and if you've done any craft or things like that, we are, we are trying to make sure that we generate work streams that people. And learning, but can also do without, without technical skills.

Some jobs are gonna be set up absolutely for a tiered level of technical capacity, but we'll make sure that we fill in and, and that those, that there's translational learning opportunities in some of those more technically driven spaces for people who are interested in participating. Mm. And then there's gonna be some really simple skills like stitching and using a, using a, a, a staple gun.

You know? Yeah. Some of these are not highly skilled, but they're still really critical to the, to the overall, um, weaving together and delivery of the, of, of the project. So we're up for everyone who's interested. What, what we [01:15:00] are looking for is good people. We're gonna have a no dickheads rule, and like, if you're a dickhead, you can't help us because dickheads just make everybody get, you know, kind of completely distracted.

So we're, we're after enthusiasm and, and good and good energy.

PY: Mm-hmm. Enthusiasm, energy, no drama llamas kind of thing.

Dylan: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Curiosity, competency, courage. We want those things.

PY: I, I think it's gonna be a, a, a great for people to be able to get involved with this prebuilt and see how, yeah, see how a modular snake is made.

And then transport it to, yeah. To to site and, and then

Dylan: just one way a modular snake can be there, there are probably a little fortune a way, not a way. That's right. That's right. There's more than one way to skin a snake. I mean, yeah.

PY: That's it. I mean by, by the time you're done with this, there's gonna be so many snake.

There's gonna be the Snake Pun book dad, or that a snake. [01:16:00] Yeah,

Dylan: that's a leg li there's a legless lizard. Look, I'm, I'm very excited that, that the, the Underland team that we've shared it with so far are also pretty excited. So, you know, I think that, um, you know, that, that gives me the, the requisite level of anxiety to make sure that I make it as good as I can.

PY: Yeah. There's always that little bit of, um. Worry and pressure that's needed to bring a project to completion. I find, I find that is a,

Dylan: it's not just a little bit, if I wasn't worried about it, I wouldn't care. So I know that I care about it 'cause I'm worried about it. It's a good sign. So I want it to be good.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. I've just gotta let it not all consume me, you know?

Okay. Jonah in the belly of the snake.

PY: Terrible. Yep. Let's, I'll point that one down folks. All right. Yeah,

Dylan: yeah, yeah. Let's let, let's finish, let's finish. This is good things going to dad joke land real quickly.

PY: Um, for people who want to be involved with this [01:17:00] team, what's the best way for them to get.

In contact, should they just call, uh, email the generic crew address at this, this stage?

Dylan: Well, um, common Arts Victoria have said they've got a, they've got a, a, a big lineup of, you know, um, messaging and things going out. They've, they've got a website now for the Underland Festival. So, um, if you are interested, go to the website.

Obviously Common Arts Victoria is a member led and run organization. Mm-hmm. If you want to contribute, you need to sign up. I think it's free to join, or, you know, it's a couple of bucks or whatever that is. But that, that then gives you access to the Slack channel and you can start to actually communicate.

And people are, people are, it's a really flat hierarchy in there, but you very quickly find your way to the people who know how to help and how to guide you to the, to the, to the, to the place where, you know, you can add value.

PY: Okay. So we'll put that link in the show notes to the Common Arts website [01:18:00] and.

I can see on the notice board page as well as information on how to become a CAV member. There's a generic crew email address which they can hit up, which is crew. There you go. At common arts.org.au to register your interest in volunteering for Underland 2025. This is all sounding pretty cool. I can't wait to, to get on site and, and see this, see the snake beginning to rear itself in, in the, in the distance.

Um, any, any last messages to the community, Dylan, while you've got that ear?

Dylan: Ah, look, um, you know, I'd just like to say I'm really looking forward to meeting all of you, more of you, um, and to participating. It's, um, it's been a welcome, uh, uh, it's, it's, it's been a welcoming space. Mm. And, um, I look forward to sharing that.

Welcome with more my people.

PY: Mm, excellent. [01:19:00] Looking forward to it. Dylan, thanks for coming on the podcast today.

Dylan: My pleasure.

PY: Up next is the Temple Build team.

Aaron, how's it going? Welcome to the Bonzaar podcast.

Aaron: Thanks for having me. Yeah, it's going really well.

PY: Uh, Aaron, how are you? How I'm doing? Good, thank you. Gradually getting there with all these interviews. Stevan usually does all the talking on this podcast. I just do the engineering and, um, I'm beginning to appreciate just what a good job Stevan does 'cause he makes it look easy and, uh, I am trailing in his weight trying to do what I can on, on this episode.

Aaron: I think it's gonna be great.

PY: Yeah, unfortunately you've got, you've got me and, and not Stevan, so I, um, I apologize in advance for, for the, um, you're not quite getting the, uh, bonzaar, uh, deluxe experience. You're more getting bonzaar light with me. Uh, so. [01:20:00] Hope that's okay. Anyway, uh, for our audience, can you introduce yourself and tell us what you're gonna be doing at Underland this year?

Aaron: Yeah, so my name's Aaron and I am leading the Temple Build at Underland 2025.

PY: Mm. Awesome. Okay, let, we'll get onto that in a sec, but, um, look, one fun thing to do is always to ask people how they got involved. You know, 'cause it's often people have a crazy story about, or, well, not so crazy, um, story about how they got involved with the scene.

So can you, can you take me back? How did you first get involved with this burning stuff? Um, you know, when was it, what was your first experience?

Aaron: Sure. So I first, uh, was introduced to Burns and Burning Man by my partner mm-hmm. In 2020. Mm-hmm. We were living in Sweden. And, um, at the time I was doing a lot of reading about communities and, you know, different ways of living.

Mm-hmm. And, uh, been kind of. Identifying as an anarchist, but [01:21:00] as some sort of a ideal, it, it was attractive to me. Mm-hmm. And, um, once I was shown the principles of Burning Man, I kind of just realized that there was a lot of other people that thought a similar way to me, that these, these principles, uh, kind of standard way that I was practicing life, I guess.

PY: Hmm.

Aaron: So, uh, I realized I had to, I had to find these people and start hanging out with them. So I started going, we went to a few burns quite small in Sweden.

PY: Mm-hmm.

Aaron: Made some friends, um, uh, and they were starting a burn in Austria, so we helped organize a burn in Austria. Cool. And the, yeah, the first burn I went to, we just met, um, kind of there to experience, but also we took quite a lot of things, like an experience for things to do and.

My partner really emphasized the idea of gifting and like bringing something to the [01:22:00] burn.

PY: Mm.

Aaron: And so the next time that I went, I decided to build a sculpture. Mm-hmm. Um, didn't really burn very well, but we, we burnt it eventually.

PY: Okay. Took a bit of encouragement,

Aaron: a lot of encourag. Okay. Uh, but that, that sculpture was the early prototype of the temple, uh, that's being built, uh, under land.

PY: Oh. So this is actually a project that's kind of got a bit of history. It's been going, it's been in your head for while. Mm-hmm. Like a few years now.

Aaron: Yeah. So I've actually built this sculpture three times before. Ah, um,

PY: iterating.

Aaron: Yeah, the three different sizes. This one's obviously the biggest Uhhuh.

Yeah. And just to kind of round off that, uh, introduction story to, to Burns, uh, we've recently moved to Melbourne. Mm-hmm. And this is where my partner used to live. She has a lot of friends here. Mm-hmm. Was part [01:23:00] of the burning scene while she lived here. So as soon as we got here, we, a week later we were at Underland 2024.

PY: Mm-hmm.

Aaron: And, uh, that was my introduction to Melbourne as and Common Arts Victoria. And that it, so I realized as soon as Underland finished, I need to apply for the Temple Grant.

PY: Yeah. That's cool.

Aaron: Yeah.

PY: It sounds like you've, um, really dove in at first. I feel sometimes, from what I've heard from previous temple builders, they've been a little bit hesitant to jump in.

They've sort of felt, oh, you know, can I do this? Is it my time? To do this, but, but maybe because you've had a bit of history with your project already, you've kind of been able to really jump on this quickly.

Aaron: Yeah. I think the design stays the same. It's just a case of scaling it to the size it's gonna be at Underland.

You know, I've been through the [01:24:00] process of burning it, been through the process of, you know, buying the timber. Mm-hmm. Actually in Austria it's quite difficult to kind of organize buying timber in a different country, making sure that it arrives at the right place at the right time when I'm there. Uh, kind of cooperating with people in different countries to take those orders and, and help.

So, um, yeah.

PY: Wow. So this is, I guess in some respects, easier. You're not having to cross country lines, you're not having to do with intern like international Oh, well, yeah. International. Deliveries of things and, and yourself moving over a, a border to build this, this must be a, I wouldn't say a walk in the park, but it's diff different, at least to your previous experiences.

Aaron: Yeah. I guess some of the main differences, so I've, I've only been in Melbourne since, um, September. Mm-hmm. So [01:25:00] some of the differences would be, you know, the scale of it is so much bigger. Um, so I have to have more help. Mm-hmm. So the previous ones I did either by myself or with my partner.

PY: Mm-hmm.

Aaron: And this one requires more of a team.

Mm. We need a big place to build it. Mm. There's more logistics involved 'cause it's bigger. Mm. But there are, there are other challenges absent, uh, crossing country borders and flying to places.

PY: What's that process been like so far engaging with the community to bring on. More help

Aaron: so far? Uh, taking on help has been fairly easy.

Mm-hmm. Um, just in terms of my immediate friends mm-hmm. They've been very keen to be involved. Mm-hmm. I've been reaching out to some other people who are new to the space and trying to introduce them and show them what I'm [01:26:00] doing. Mm-hmm. And everyone's usually quite interested when I say I am building a sculpture.

PY: Mm-hmm.

Aaron: Uh, so that's been fun. But I think, yeah, there will, there will be a time I think, where I'll have to reach out and ask for some extra hands probably for the actual build on site.

PY: Mm-hmm. That's right. 'cause it sounds like you're doing a good amount of pre-build, but there's also what, what happens on site and, um, you know, inevitably there's, there's challenges.

Uh, people get sick. You can get the old, we're in a curve ball thrown at you. So, yeah, they can always be a, a bit of extra help is, um, is always nice to find, to have I, I think Okay. To, to get people kind of fused about things in that respect. Um, can you share a bit about the temple? I'm, I'm really intrigued with this idea that you've, you, you've iterated on it and so it's getting, you know, bigger and better and you've, you've seen some of the challenges like, you know, trying to get it [01:27:00] to burn properly.

So, you know, iteration is so, uh, so important for in design and, and art and anything we, we want to achieve. Yeah. Can, can you share a bit more about, about the temple?

Aaron: Yeah. How best to describe the temple. Well, I, I guess I can start by just describing the shape, I suppose. Mm-hmm. Um. It's a square. It's built by, um, constructing squares.

They get smaller and smaller and smaller on top of each other. Mm-hmm. As if it's a sort of pyramid. And they, they each spin, uh, certain amount of degrees each square. Mm-hmm. So you end up with this kind of twisting, um, square pyramid type of shape. Some of the inspiration, I think when I first decided that I wanted to build it, some of the ideas that I had were trying to spin fire without, [01:28:00] you know, the dragon style or poi.

I was trying to think about how to spin fire, whether it was possible to control a fire in that regard. So that was one of the inspirational, um, thoughts, uhhuh. And the first time that I built it in the way that I envisioned it, it was two meters tall. Mm-hmm. And I kind of looked inside and saw the patterns.

Um, that, that the wood created and also the light shining through the gaps in between the wood as the sculpture twists. Mm-hmm. And my first thought was that I needed to be, it needed to be big enough so that I could be inside it basically. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, and this one will be, that will be able to hang out inside the temple and hopefully relax, meditate, and process and write messages, um, all the things the temple was supposed to be for.

Mm-hmm. As well as being a bit of an art piece as well.

PY: Sounds very [01:29:00] geometric, very mathematical.

Aaron: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I would say so. There's been, there's been some maths. Yeah. Some trial and error. Yeah. I think. The first trial and error was when I had all of these, um, squares separate. There was a lot of trial and error trying to figure out exactly how to twist them.

Mm-hmm. And how much to twist them, you know, if they don't twist so much, it kind of just has this flat surface that twists. Um, it twisted a little bit too much and it doesn't stand up on its own and the center of gravity moves over and it just tips. All right. So I had to do that a few times to find a spot where it could twist enough and stand up on its own.

PY: Right. Interesting. Would you, would you say you in general, your design approach is more on that kind of engineering and math side? Yeah, I'm just thinking, 'cause I'm, I'm sort of working with friends of mine at the moment and, you know, I tend to be a bit more on the, the [01:30:00] nerdy side and they're very organic and hands-on and it's just such a different, completely different.

Mindsets. Would you, it sounds very geometric, but it, is that where your mind comes from as well or that's just what the project is asking of you?

Aaron: I think the, the project asked that of me Uhhuh. I think I had an idea in my head that I wanted to create, so then I just, then I just started and after that then it's, then you start to realize, okay, I need to figure out Yeah, how big and how small the squares need to be, how tall it's gonna be.

Yeah. One thing that we tried to do in this last one, we realized that one of the older ones almost does an exact 360 from like an, an exact 360 spin. Um, so we tried to get that worked into this other one, but it's not quite, not quite there.

PY: Hmm.

I guess you are constrained by the [01:31:00] height as well 'cause there's only so high you can go.

I believe so, yeah. Yeah,

Aaron: yeah. So it's kind of. If we could go a little bit higher, we would've been able to get 360 and, um,

yeah, but I, I still think it's gonna look great.

PY: Oh, I'm sure it will. And I, I can tell you from personal experience, the, the height that we had last year, I don't know if that went to maximum or not.

Um, when you're standing very close to it, very close, that feels plenty high enough. Mm-hmm. Like the sound is above your head and it's a bit daunting. So, um, yeah. Yeah. I think it'll be impressive.

Aaron: Yeah. I hope so. I hope so.

PY: Hmm. And it sounds like the twist, that that will influence the way it, it burns obviously, so we can expect to have, like you were saying, spinning without physically, genetically spinning.

We should see sort of a, a, a spire, [01:32:00] a rotating spire going up when it, when it burns. Is that the idea?

Aaron: That's the idea. So we can, uh, that that's the plan and hopefully that's how it burns. Yeah.

PY: Sounds really cool. I'm excited to see it. For sure.

Aaron: Yeah. It's something, something that I've been very excited about for a long time, and every time I look at it and see it being kind of built as we're build building it now, each time I see it, it's um, it's very exciting.

Mm. It's just can't wait to see it in the paddock.

PY: So, sounds like even now the process and the pre-build is, you know, of immense value to you. It's, it's not like you'll get to the end and you go, oh, it's finally done. I, I feel great now. It, it sounds like that it's, it's already happening in your mind. It's already hitting that kind of artistic satisfaction.

Aaron: Yeah. I mean, some of the things that I, um, enjoy the most about this. [01:33:00] Especially this, um, bigger version working with, uh, friends and more people

PY: mm-hmm.

Aaron: Is that, well, GI gifting is one of the principles of Burning Man, and it's very easy to read that and think, oh yeah, give gifts and you don't expect anything back.

PY: Mm-hmm.

Aaron: Et cetera. But as I built this sculpture before at a previous burn, and there was a different kind of feeling or just immense gratefulness, when you see what your gift or contribution can provide people, that your, your gift is either received well or enjoyed, and to see people learn how to build Mm.

Practice how to build, to spend time, develop, developing relationships. Mm. And then, yeah, I think it's just the idea of, of giving and sharing. [01:34:00] And kind of trying to show other people how to share.

PY: That's a really cool way of, of thinking about it.

Aaron: Yeah.

PY: Yeah. The, the gift is not even in the, it's not solely the, the finished work on the paddock.

It's, it's the gift that you give to the people who in turn gifting their time. Uh mm. Yeah. It's sort of this virtuous kind of circle of, of gifting that the, the act of producing itself is a gift unto those who are producing it. Yeah. That's crazy.

Aaron: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. The experience, getting to have the experience.

Yeah. I'm just very grateful, uh, that I, that I got the opportunity to, to build this crazy idea that I had a few years ago. Um, obviously there's some nerves and, uh, there's some apprehension about how big it is. Whether it works the way I want it to work.

PY: Mm.

Aaron: And, um, [01:35:00] yeah.

PY: Okay. Let's, um, let's talk about some of the, the, the nuts and bolts of your logistics, if you like.

Uh, particularly in regards to crew. Um, it sounds like you've, you've got a very good handle on crew anyway, but I think it's useful to talk about this for, you know, people who might want to, to join on perhaps a bit more on site. Mm-hmm. And also just to, you know, give people a bit of a flavor of what it's like to be on a build crew.

'cause usually, you know, for people who will, will turn up, um, you know, just before the weekend, this will already be there. It'll just be magic to them. But they won't have seen, you know, like Yeah. All things crossed, it'll, you know, they'll rock up and they'll be like, wow, how, how did this, this get here? But of course, there's so much behind the scenes.

So it sounds like you're doing pre-built That's right. To, to prefabricate. Mm-hmm. Some, some sections.

Aaron: Yeah. So we've, um, luckily with the, the sculpture, it's all. Quite uniform.

PY: Mm-hmm.

Aaron: Even ev, everything's slightly different size, but they all, [01:36:00] it's all the same. Mm-hmm. In, in essence. So we're able to cut pre-drill, dummy build, and then dismantle and stack all of the squares.

Mm-hmm. Um, then it's a case of loading a truck with all of the, with all of the timber, all of the lights that are being handmade, all of the kind of interior seating cushions, the kind of the interior decorations. Mm-hmm. There's other things to think about, like how to keep it attached to the ground.

'cause it was very windy on the paddock last year. And then once on site, it just a matter of rebuilding it and hopefully we have the, the right lifting equipment to put it together.

PY: You mentioned the, um. The lighting and the fact that they were gonna be handmade. Can you tell us a bit more [01:37:00] about the lighting and, and what it's gonna look like?

Aaron: Yeah. Um, so the idea for the lights in this temple are quite big meter long raindrop shaped lights. Oh, cool. Um, we were trying our best to kind of form these in a workshop. It was with fiberglass and kind of trying to mold fiberglass around this, um, what's the word? A form? A mold. Yeah. Okay. Yep. Yeah. Using, using a form and trying to set this fiberglass into teardrop shapes.

PY: Mm-hmm.

Aaron: And then they will be kind of generating all the light and those teardrops or raindrops be kind of coming down with the spiral of the sculpture uhhuh. And then at the bottom of the temple there will be a, a kind of sculpture of a seedling.

PY: Oh, I've got it. Right.

Aaron: So there's kind of this story of, um, yeah.

The kind of [01:38:00] rain coming down onto the, to a seedling kind of bringing life. And then when the sculpture burns, there's this very intense kind of cathartic scream. So there's a Yeah. Duality between this kind of almost violent expression of, of fire uhhuh, and then this kind of rebirth of life in the middle of it.

PY: Oh, that's so cool. That's so cool. 'cause, because in Australia, some of the native plants, they need fire to regenerate. Mm-hmm. So you've got the, the elements there that, that are required for, for life. You've got the, the, the water and the, the fire to kick the process mm-hmm. Off. Wow. Really cool. Yeah. And, and so I, and I, I guess the, they'll be there during the, the week and then because they're mm-hmm.

The fiberglass, they'll be removed just prior to the. So the, so the burn is, is that right?

Aaron: Yeah. So we'll be, um, it'll be lighting, lighting [01:39:00] the inside, and it also creates this kind of glowing effect when you view the sculpture from the outside. And just before we burn it on the sun, we'll remove all of the kind of cushions and blankets, um, the, the small sculpture in the rear, in the middle, uhhuh, all of the lighting.

And then the door that we've made, or the opening that we've made will then be closed. Mm-hmm. And so no one can get back in. And, uh, that's, that's when we'll set it, set it a light.

PY: Sounds like it's gonna be, um, beautiful. Just like at nighttime. It's gonna be fantastic with that, that glowing kind of, uh, pattern to it.

Yeah,

Aaron: it's one of my, one of my favorite things.

PY: Absolutely cannot wait to see that. Thank you. Thank you for giving us that description.

Aaron: Welcome.

PY: So as far as your onsite crew goes, any special [01:40:00] skills required? I'm assuming you need to be somewhat able bodied 'cause there'll be a physical labor component for this.

There'll be mm-hmm. Lifting and moving and trucks and ground anchors and, and that sort of thing. But aside from that, is there any particular skills you need from your, your build crew on site?

Aaron: Um, I'm not sure of of particular skills. I think, uh, if you have experience using a, a drill or a screwdriver mm-hmm.

Or, um, just regular kind of tools. Yeah. I think that's, that's more than enough. But they're also not so difficult that we can't show you how to show you how to use them.

PY: Mm-hmm.

Aaron: Um, so other than that, just a positive attitude and, um, yeah. Yeah, I don't think there are any, um, special skills anybody needs for this.

PY: Hmm. And what about, um, time commitment? Um, [01:41:00] how many days on site are you anticipating to get it built?

Aaron: Hmm. So we are planning to be there on the Saturday before uhhuh. So we're hopefully gonna build Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. There'll be five days before Underland begins.

PY: Hmm. You know, for me that, that quiet time where the event is getting set up and you can literally see the, the temple and the effigy getting put together piece by piece and it kind of grows magically.

But before you. That's a wonderful time to, to be on site and, and part of the event. And I think, um, that's one of the real selling points for, for people who come during that build week to be able to see a literal mini city spring up, spring up around. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's a great thing.

Aaron: [01:42:00] One of, one of the ways that I've described Burns, uh, to friends is that, um, nothing, nothing happens unless you, you do something.

Mm. Because nothing would be, nothing would be there unless people didn't show up and decide that they wanted to contribute, whether it's in the organization of the toilets, the fire brigade, the um, the kind of medical or. The, or the permits, that's all done by someone that just wants to do these things.

And then it, then you get into the, the temple building, the refugee building, people playing music, people making art. N nothing would be there unless people get involved and do stuff. And it's, um, when you look around when you're there and you can say to yourself or say to your friends, we did this.

PY: [01:43:00] Mm.

Aaron: It's quite a, a special, special thing to be a part of.

PY: This is great. You've mentioned so many things already about why people should be infused and feel. Um, I, I guess almost privileged to, to be part of this gift and part of the build and, and part of the event. I don't feel, I don't feel I need to ask you any more questions of, um, you've had a beautiful way of putting things and I, I feel like I need to steal some of those sentences myself because I'm You're very welcome.

I'm, I'm struggling to, to, to get my friends, uh, infused and I, I think, um, the way you've put things has, has really, um, the nail on the head, so thank you for that.

Aaron: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'd just like to say just a big thanks to, uh, my partner for introducing me and, um, all her help on the builds and also this build and all of the people that have helped so far.

It's, uh, [01:44:00] yeah, it's really been a lot of fun and it's really very early on, so it's been great. And if anybody does want to help, they should, um. Reach out. Mm-hmm. And if there's an opportunity we can try and make that happen.

PY: Ah, that's right. I think we should mention that. So the best way to reach out, I believe in your case, is just to head to the common arts website.

And I believe the email address you'll find on there is crew@commonarts.org do au I think that's the best way to reach you. Is that right?

Aaron: Yeah, I think that's it. Yeah.

PY: Cool. Awesome. Um, Aaron, that's got me really excited, uh, to see your project and to see it constructed and, um, and to, to, to see how your crew engages with, with the process now that you've given me that little bit of extra insight about gifting.

Aaron: Mm.

PY: Thank you for that.

Aaron: Great. Well, um, I'm excited for you all to see it, so [01:45:00] yeah.

PY: Excellent.

Aaron: I'm glad to here.

PY: Excellent. Okay. Look forward to seeing you on the paddock.

Aaron: You too. Thanks a lot.

PY: This concludes part three of the Underland Volunteers call out episode of the Bonzer podcast. And thanks to my fellow podcast collaborators, Stevan Nam Lay, the driving force behind the podcast and Space Cake, our fellow host for those who listen to all three parts of this episode.

Thank you. It means a lot to me. Can you believe it's six hours of content about volunteering at one small event? Pretty crazy, huh? Well, I look forward to seeing you at underland 2025. Please come up and say, hi, I'm [01:46:00] PY.

Transcripts transcribed by Descript AI