PY: [00:00:00] Welcome back to the bonzaar podcast. This is part two of the Underland Volunteers Call-Out episode. Today we're hearing from the Rangers Sanctuary Fire Team and the Sandman

Egg, a big bonzaar welcome. Thanks for coming on the podcast.

Egg: Hello. Hello. Thanks for having me.

PY: Hi, Egg. Can you, uh, start us off? Can you give us, uh, an introduction to yourself and what you do at Underland?

Egg: So I'm Egg I am the Underland Ranger lead for 2025. Mm-hmm. Um, I have a bit of a background in education support and community services administration.

Fairly new to the burn scene. I actually had not gone to a burn before I joined the Underland Rangers team. Um, oh yeah. So that my first ever

PY: I was gonna ask you about that. I thought you were like a, [00:01:00] I just had it in my mind that you were like an old school person and that you'd, you know, been to all these regionals around and I I did not.

I'm okay completely.

Egg: I've been to a bunch of festivals, but never burn.

PY: That's crazy. So you were kind of like burn adjacent. You kind of knew people who

Egg: Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah.

PY: Alright. What, what made you, what possessed you to be like, yeah, I, I wanna do this, I wanna get started and I'm not just gonna come to the event, but I'm gonna do a volunteer role straight away.

What, what? What made that decision happen?

Egg: I had done like volunteering like previously for some festivals. Um, and then I saw the wonderful Ranger leads of 20 22, 20 23, Astrid and Anthers they made a post on Facebook. Yeah. Looking for some people for the ra, what we now call the ranger year round team. Mm-hmm.

And I was like, you know what, I'm just going to dive straight in and just do it. Um. And that year, 2023 was my first year. So I did a lot of like scheduling and email communication for [00:02:00] Rangers. Mm-hmm. Kind of like under Astrid's wing. She was kind of my mentor. Mm. And then last year, um, the Underland Ranger lead, Stephen asked if I wanted to co-lead with him, which was such an honor.

Um, second, second burn ever. I was like, yeah, let's do it. Um, and then Stephen wasn't able to attend this year, so the task of ranger lead has now fallen into my lap, which I'm very excited for.

PY: There you go. You've, you've landed in the hot seat. I can see how that would've been fun as well. 'cause Stephen Stephen's a, a fun guy and it has all that experience from the big burn and it's kind of got this, um, kind of like lighthearted attitude to things, I would say.

Yeah. He's, he's not like a. Super. Like, this is the way we must do things. Lead. He's more like, yeah, this is, this can be sort of a chill thing. I, I kind of got that vibe from him. Yeah, it was great. It was so much fun working with him. Mm. And, and before that I can, you know, like Astrid and and Anths are so kind of relaxed as well and approachable.

I think that I can see how you kind of got sucked into their, their [00:03:00] little world. I, you know, like in a, in a positive, in a positive way. You had all the right people to kind of get you into it.

Egg: I'm really bad at festivals at like, not taking on responsibility. I'm always like, give me tasks. I need tasks, otherwise I get really bored.

PY: Yeah. It's um, it's a common. Problem slash uh, good personality trait. I think, I mean, you know, I go to these seminars and everyone talks about volunteer over commitment and it's kind of like, yeah, but that's just the personality type. You gotta let people go to their logical, kind of extreme anyway.

Egg: Yeah.

PY: Okay. So for, for those who, who don't know, who haven't, um, you know, possibly haven't been to a burn before, can you tell me what, what the ranger team does?

Egg: So the Rangers are kind of integral to ensuring community safety at all different types of events. It's not just like Burns, they're kind of at all festivals.

Mm-hmm. Um, rangers often end up being the first point of call just before emergency services. Mm-hmm. Um, [00:04:00] and dust ranges or paddock rangers, they'll walk around the site and keep their eyes peeled for any safety concerns. Mm-hmm. As well as engaging with the community to make sure everyone's feeling safe and happy.

Um, to best explain what rangers do, I'll read this little excerpt from our ranger of manual. I'm a very organised lady. Nice. So a ranger rides on the edge of chaos. You could be walking around all shift with nothing happening for hours. Mm-hmm. And then suddenly you're attending to a very intense situation that spans the breadth of interpersonal conflict.

PY: Wow. Sounds, uh, potentially challenging

Egg: a little bit, but you will always have people to back you up and help you out. So you're never, ever going to have to deal with something alone.

PY: That's the thing. There's a, there's a bit of structure, isn't it? It's not like you are, you are out there walking alone, out there alone.

You've got, you, you've got your, your, your ranger buddy who you've, you are with, there's the radio, there's the more experienced ranges up the [00:05:00] line, there's emergency services, et cetera, et cetera. So, exactly. And like, I, I, I guess that's, that's one thing I should say for people who haven't been to an event like this before, there is a lot of stuff there.

There's like medical on site, fire on site, security on site, event management on site. So it's definitely not like. Rangers, you're responsible for everyone's safety. Um,

Egg: not at all. Like something we often say in the Rangers is the best way to be a ranger is do nothing.

PY: Oh, I like that one.

Egg: You're kind of just that friendly face.

Yep. That shows up and you just call the person that is necessary to deal with the situation

PY: first, do nothing. Yeah. I like it.

Egg: Yep.

PY: I think there's almost a bit of a sort of, almost like an observer effect going on there as well. The fact that you turn up and you're kind of Yeah, no, like someone who's sober with a radio and just kind of has eyeballs on the situation.

I think that somehow affects the situation. It's just like, oh, someone's here. It does having a look. You know, like they're not the police, [00:06:00] they're not security, but they're just, just checking up on,

Egg: it's like, oh, responsible adult has stepped on the scene.

PY: It's like, okay, things are good here. We, we can wander off.

Nothing to see here, kind of thing. So, yeah.

Egg: Yep.

PY: Okay. And so, you know, you've been doing it for a couple years now, but aside from just needing to, to keep busy while you're at the event, what, what, what do you like about. Doing it, you know, what, what sort of is the, the things day to day that make you think, yeah, this is cool.

I'm having fun here.

Egg: I really enjoyed, like my first year, like I, I had done Rangering for another festival before, but that was so many years ago. I remember. Yep. Nothing about it. Mm-hmm. But first year that I rangered for Underland, I really enjoyed the community aspect of it. Mm-hmm. I made a lot of like lifelong friends through the rangers.

Mm-hmm. Everyone's super supportive and considering the nature of some of the incidents we sometimes have to deal with, things can get really messy and tough, [00:07:00] but everyone's always just there to support each other, be a shoulder to cry on, someone to vent at. Mm-hmm. And funnily enough, being a part of the Ranger team made me so much more confident in my abilities because everyone kind of really believes in each other and believes in each other's competence and capabilities.

PY: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Funny you should say that. I mean, I, I just saw you sitting behind the desk with your hat on doing the paperwork, ticking people off, and I was like. This is someone who's done this a lot before, like they seem to have a hand on this. Oh, I'll just check in with them kind of thing. Yep. It's all good.

So, Hmm. Okay. Interesting. And do you, that community aspect, do you, do you think that's something that draws people to the, to the Ranger team? If, if people are sort of wondering, you know, should I volunteer or should I not, is that, is that one of the, the draw cards or are there other elements as well that they, you know, other perhaps skills or experiences they can pick up along the way?

Egg: I think that like, part of it is like community. We have a lot of like people [00:08:00] that are fresh to burns that are like, I don't know what I'm doing at a Burn. So I would love to come along and be a part of the Rangers to really get involved in the scene. Mm-hmm. But it also, being a part of Rangers really helps you just learn some vary.

Great everyday skills like learning to be good at deescalation, keeping calm in stressful environments, learning how to have like a friendly chill chat if you're someone that has a bit of social anxiety. That's something that, um, I used to have a lot of social anxiety and Rangering helped a lot with easing that.

Mm-hmm. And also some people enjoy coming and doing a range of shift because it helps 'em stay on top of time at events. I've noticed that. Yes. Otherwise you fall, it's easy, it lose track time. Yeah,

PY: that's right. Yeah. Whereas you have to turn up for something, you kind of have to structure your Okay. It's like, okay, so 6:00 AM I've gotta get some sleep before then or not.

But either way, you know, like you have to, you know, clown a little bit kind of thing.

Egg: Yep.

PY: Yeah, I mean, I just, [00:09:00] just in my experience, I've, I've kind of just sitting, standing back from a few situations. I've often been impressed at the way rangers have solved. Situations and I've sort of gone, oh wow, this person like that was really smart.

They've somehow not been involved, have recruited resources to help pack up something and it seems to be neatly kind of tied into a bow and they've sort of gone, okay, like, we are here if you need us, but I'm out of here kind of thing. I've sort of gone, wow, that's, that was really, I like that problem solving approach.

How did the, thats the opposite. The time,

Egg: the, yeah. The great thing about Rangers is like there's so many people with so many different skills. Like someone might not be the best at deescalation, but they might be really good at staying calm in the situation. So they're just the person just like talking a little bit while the person that is good at deescalation is the one dealing with the situation a bit more head on.

Mm-hmm. Like everyone's got a different way to problem solve and it's really, that's a, yeah, it's really beautiful watching everyone just work together to solve [00:10:00] some kind of, at times difficult issues.

PY: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think sometimes if you get head up with someone who's quite different from you that often.

That often can quite work quite well. I've noticed that, you know, I sort of have this technical way of solving problems, but if you get a good kind of soft skills person, then you can kind of work together with, with them. You know, I'm always sort of a little bit like, well, we gotta solve this and we gotta call and SPAM team and they've gotta like, you know, shore this thing up and then like the soft skills person will just be like, oh, we could get, you know, can you help, can you ask your neighbor for a hand?

And then it's like the problem is solved kind of thing, and it, it just works out. So,

Egg: and put your brains together and just come up with the best plan possible.

PY: So. So on that, on the, on the skills side of things, what, um, what are you, what are you looking for in terms of someone to come onto the, the ranger team?

Do they need to come with any particular skills or are you looking to fill a, a skills gap at the moment? Or what, what sort of person are you, are you looking for?

Egg: So we actually have two [00:11:00] different sets of volunteers that we're looking for at the moment. Uhhuh. So I'll talk about pre-event first. Right. Um, so we are looking for some people to join the year-round team Uhhuh.

There's quite a fair few like roles that don't really need any skills behind them. Mm-hmm. Unless you're just interested in that area. Mm-hmm. So first is comms and recruitment. We just need someone who's happy to post on social media, respond to emails, community engagement, just someone that that's. Happy to talk.

Mm-hmm. Then we're looking for someone to help out with the design of Ranger hq, sourcing the furniture, materials, food coordinating transport of all that to site. Mm-hmm. So if someone's interested in design and making spaces comfortable and has like some sort of way to transport it all to site, that's something we definitely need help with.

Mm. And the other is designing and creating gifts for crew.

aka schwag,

PY: the swag really important.

Egg: Yes. The schwag. So another design task there. So if [00:12:00] anyone's creative and is interested in joining for that. Mm. Is that as well? And for someone that's more of an experienced ranger, um, we're looking for someone to help.

That, uh, with assisting, um, with training on an offsite and reviewing our manuals, you won't be doing it alone. You'll be doing it with someone. Mm-hmm. But just an extra pair of hands on board. Um, you're also welcome to,

PY: does that mean that we have pre a pre-site training this year?

Egg: Yes.

PY: Okay, gotcha.

Egg: So I'm gonna try to book a pre-site training, maybe even two, depending on our budget.

Mm-hmm. And then there'll be the onsite training as well, so that for those that are like, I'm too tired to attend onsite training, or I really can't be bothered, I would rather just attend the pre-training. Mm. You've got those two options.

PY: Yep. Yep. I, the, the, the onsite one is good for people coming from interstate who can't, you know, physically make the, the one close to Melbourne, so, yeah,

Egg: exactly. Yeah.

PY: Mm. Okay.

Egg: So even if someone wants to join the year round team, just to be involved in discussions mm-hmm. With all things rangers and help shape things up, everyone's voice matters. So if [00:13:00] you're interested. Come on board. We would love to have you.

PY: Excellent.

Egg: So then on, that's the year round team. Mm-hmm.

And also like. No one's Overcommitting. We're making sure that no one's doing too much before the event. We don't want anyone getting stressed out and then heading to site already, like stressed out with, oh my gosh, I've been working for the last fortnight on this. Mm, and then for onsite. Mm. Um, all of the roles I'm about to talk about will have training, um, for them.

So if you're like, I'm interested in that, but I don't know what I'm doing. Mm-hmm. You'll have some level of training given to you. Cool. Um, so we've got the dust rangers. They work in pairs, walking around the burn to ensure everyone's safe and having fun. Mm-hmm. Those shifts are roughly four to six hours.

Mm-hmm. Then we've got the shift lead. So if you like administration shift lead is definitely a role for you. You'll be, you'll be stationed at Ranger HQ and you'll be in charge of signing rangers in and out of their [00:14:00] shifts. Mm-hmm. Being the middle man on the radio, if a, uh, like some sort of issue arises.

Mm-hmm. Um, as well as answering questions from any participants who are like, oh, have you found this? 'cause I think Lost and found will be at rangers this year. Yep. Or just general questions about the burn. So that's like six hours. Yep. Um, sometimes five hours. It depends. We haven't fully decided the rest.

Yeah. But nothing will be over six hours. Okay. And then the big one that we need a lot of this year is perimeter rangers. Yes. So these are the ranges that stand along the perimeter of the burn, ensuring the perimeter of the burn isn't breached. So they watch the crowd the entire time and just keep an eye out for anyone that might look distressed.

PY: Hmm. Uh, I think it's, um, sometimes people see that role and they think, well, I don't wanna do that because I'll, I'll be missing out on seeing the burn. But you actually see something very different. You see people's reactions and it's not, you know, it sort of gives [00:15:00] you permission to kind of, yeah. Sort of, don't wanna sound creepy, but you, you can, you can see the effect that the, the fire is having on people, if that makes sense.

You know, and it's,

Egg: yeah, it's, my favorite part is like, as, as it lights up, you see everyone like smile and their eyes wider. Yeah. And it's really beautiful to watch.

PY: Yeah. It's, it's having a front row seat to the, the, the effect that, that sort of, the apex of the event is having, having on people, I think.

Egg: Yeah. It's really beautiful. And you will also get a chance to look at the burn as well. So your quad lead, which is usually a more experienced ranger, they will come and stand next to you and watch the crowd for you so that you can turn around for a minute, two minutes, however long you please, and get a chance to actually watch the burn so that you don't miss out on getting to see the fire yourself.

PY: That That's right. And then you, you actually get to see it, you know, quite close because you're that little bit closer to like, the only other are closer at the Sandman. So you'll, you'll be getting, you know, a little bit toasty. [00:16:00]

Egg: Oh, oh, yeah. Yeah. You get very to it's cold out there before, uh, the burn starts, but then once the burn starts, you get very nice and toasty very quickly.

PY: Mm. Yeah. I'm always amazed at how hot it gets. Okay. So you need people for dust, you need people, uh, to do the, the shift kind of role. And then you need people for the, the burn perimeter as well. Um, any other roles that need to be. As far as I'm,

Egg: we are also looking for quad leads. Quad leads will be for someone that's like an experienced ranger.

Yep. We won't need too many of them, but we're always looking for quad leads. Mm-hmm. And honestly, that's about it, I think. Really? Yeah. We're not gonna, I don't think we'll do Ranger on call this year 'cause we find it really hard to get anyone other than the leads to do the Ranger on call position. Right.

Which is a 12 hour shift, so.

PY: Right. It's a shift to be, to be sort of monitoring the radio in the background on that.

Egg: Yeah. You're not working the whole 12 hours, but it is still hard to like. Be paying attention to the radio for 12 hours.

PY: Yeah. Yeah, [00:17:00] sure. No, it is a longer one. Um, so on, on that note, if people volunteer, um, how many shifts can they expect to have to, to put in over the, over the course of the event?

Egg: So we usually say one, either dust lead shift, lead, um, shift. Mm-hmm. And then one perimeter shift. If you can only do one shift for the whole weekend, it's better than nothing at all. Sure. And then you can do as many shifts as you want, so long as you're not overworking yourself. And I'll be watching closely for anyone that's overworking themselves.

PY: Did, did you find that happened much last year or people overworking themselves?

Egg: No. Last year, no. The year before, we had a few people that were definitely maybe over committing 'cause they needed a task. Yeah. But last year wasn't too bad. We had a couple, but it wasn't, they were just teetering on the edge of maybe you're working a little too hard.

PY: Yeah. Yeah. A, a common problem. I think everyone thinks I can do it and then, but it, it's, it's good to hear that you are very cognizant of it. You've got an eye on it and, and I'm sure you know, like [00:18:00] your shift leads will be crossing off people in the spreadsheet and adding up hours and stuff like that going, eh?

Egg: Exactly. Yeah.

PY: This process time too much. Okay. Alright. Um, Egg what's the best way for people to get in contact with you about volunteering?

Egg: So they can email me at rangers lead@commonarts.org au. Mm-hmm. Rangers in that email is plural. I've had a lot of people ask that. So it is rangers plural, lead.

PY: Excellent. Okay. At common arts org au Yeah. Dot org au Yeah. All good. Any final messages to send out to the community about rangering or, or anything in, in general that you'd like to, to mention before we wrap?

Egg: No, I think that's about it.

PY: Awesome. Okay. Well, um, it's gonna be in September, grand final weekend of this year.

Egg: Indeed.

PY: Um, and, uh, I look forward to seeing you there, if not before.

Egg: Look forward to seeing you there too.

PY: Excellent. Thanks for coming on the podcast, Egg.

Egg: Take care. Thank you.

PY: Coming up next, [00:19:00] the sanctuary team.

Meg, welcome to the podcast. How you doing today?

Meg: I'm well, thank you. How are you?

PY: Good, thank you. Um, can you kick us off by introducing yourself to the audience and letting us know what you do at Underland?

Meg: Yeah, sure. So, um, I'm Meg, a lot of people at Underland probably know me as Momo, uh, and I'm involved with Underland because all of my mates are involved with Underland.

Mm-hmm. Um, so it's fitting. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, um, I think at this point I'm kind of the default lead for Sanctuary.

PY: Mm-hmm. There you go. Was it one of those you just kind of fell into it, or it, it, uh, that was the plan from all along kind of thing?

Meg: Oh, it's kind of hard to know who stumbled into who really. Um, I, uh, I've been involved with Sanctuary a couple years now, and I've been involved with, um, uh, harm reduction mental health work in a few festivals.

Mm-hmm. And so. Uh, we had an incident that [00:20:00] took place at Underland the year before last, um, that I ended up sort of being a major part of the fallout for. Mm-hmm. So I did a lot of assistance and I, um, did a lot of support for an individual who was having a really, really, really difficult time. Mm-hmm. And, um, that kind of got me much more involved than I think I would've expected to be.

PY: There you go. It was kind of a, it's almost a bit of a trial by fire that year. A lot, A lot happened in a very short amount of time, I remember.

Meg: Yes, yes, it was. But you know, luckily, uh, the person is safe and we were able to do a lot of work to try and make the community feel, um, you know, solid and supported.

And, uh, I really, I I took a lot from that.

PY: Hmm. Me too. I think we, I think we all did it. It, uh, it definitely wasn't all negatives. Um, we'll, we'll, we'll take me before, before we come around again. Take me way, take me way back, um. How did you get started in, were, were you like a, a seed person from way back, or did you start with other festivals or were you in the, in the doof scene?

How, how did you get [00:21:00] started with all of this?

Meg: Yeah, so, um, I was definitely a seed person. Mm-hmm. I ended up getting recruited into the Sin City crew, but more specifically the, um, the Middle Eastern Mafia crew in about 2017, something like that, Uhhuh. I helped out with a, um, art project and the next thing you know, I'm building the Gnome, and then the next thing you know, I'm organizing art projects and it just kind of spiraled from there.

Eventually I ended up becoming the lead on a major art project that went to seed called LaBelle Epoch, which was a, uh, crystal cave that was sound responsive. I don't know, um, if you were there for that one. But, uh, that went for a couple of years and that was absolutely incredible to be a part of. And so it just, it made me a lifer basically.

PY: Bella epoch was that, um, sounds interesting. Was that, that like a, a very high tech kind of sound installation or sort of more of that, uh, kind of analog type thing that you walked into? How, how did it work?

Meg: Oh, wow. Um, [00:22:00] so, you know, those, uh, amethyst, uh, geode crystals that you see in crystal shops, whereas it's the big gray rock inside is all this purple crystal.

Mm-hmm. It literally, the whole project started because I remember saying to a friend, how cool would it be if you could like stand inside of one of those? Okay. And so we used a vac form, which is a way to, um, vacuum form acrylic, uh, into various shapes. And we created about 120 crystals at half a meter by half a meter in size.

PY: Oh. This was a big installation

Meg: and huge installation. Wow. Yep. We built a geodesic dome, um, and we put all of those crystals behind programmable, LED lighting or in front of programmable LED lighting. And so when you walked in and you made noise, depending on where you were standing, the crystals would light up and move all around the cave.

It, it was a massive undertaking. Yeah. We were really ambitious. You know, we, we raised almost $20,000 in like eight [00:23:00] months. Uh, and, and it just, it was incredible. And so we, we took it to the first seed, I think in 2018. Um, don't quote me on that. And it, and it went back again in 2019 as a different version of itself.

Um, you know, kind of an updated, changed version. We installed a whole bunch of flowers on the inside and so it became almost like a light up flower cave.

PY: Hmm.

Meg: Uh, but people just loved it. Yeah. Um, got a lot of positive feedback and uh, it just inspired. The people on my team, but, um, myself to continue being involved.

PY: Hmm. Any more, any more ambitions to do another art project? Maybe sometime in the future? Something as big, something bigger, something small.

Meg: Uh, so this year I'm on the team for the Temple Build. Um, oh, cool. A close friend of mine ended up winning that, uh, brief. So Nice. Uh, I've just been a sort of backup, you know, manual support for this person, but, you know, uh, I, I've got [00:24:00] a lot of problem solving skills, I think from working on Label Bell, and I know how to get a big project to the, the site now to the paddock.

So, uh, I've kind of been helping him out with logistics and, you know, how do you build a massive wooden structure that you're not taking back and things like that.

PY: Yeah, I've had a, um, a sneak preview and it's, uh, it looks pretty impressive.

Meg: It's pretty cool. Hey.

PY: Yeah, it's, it's, it's really cool. I'm looking forward to, um, to seeing it come together.

Meg: We're really excited. Yeah. It's gonna be great to watch it Burn. I think it's gonna be probably one of the most exciting burns we've seen for Temple. Mm, for sure.

PY: Mm. And we've had good ones so far. We've had had really wonderful ones so far.

Meg: Yeah.

PY: Okay. Let, let's talk about, about sanctuary for folks who don't know what, what is the sanctuary?

Meg: Uh. Exactly that.

Sanctuary came about because, uh, festival can be a lot for people. Um, and if what you need is just a warm, relaxed place to have a hot cup of tea and if you're lucky, maybe a [00:25:00] grilled cheese sandwich or you know, some other way of connecting with people through board games or just a place to chill and slow down or take a break from the intensity of a festival.

Mm-hmm. That's what we're there for. Mm-hmm. Um, it's not just about people having a terrible time, it's also about people who just need somewhere easy going to be warm and chill and gather their thoughts or, or just hang out for no reason at all. Because they like the environment and they like the vibe that we build there.

It's designed also with the intention of becoming a place where if for whatever reason, any, any substance you've ingested while you are on the paddock and it's not going in the direction you'd hoped mm-hmm. You can just come and chat with us. Mm-hmm. I'm a harm reduction specialist myself, so that's kind of a big part of my work as a, a practitioner and as a psychotherapist.

Mm-hmm. And so, um, we try to have people who are around who can also just give you pretty straightforward evidence-based advice about, uh, where you're at, how long you can expect to be there, are you safe? Mm-hmm. You know, sometimes [00:26:00] all a person really needs is to have somebody who's sober hold their hand and say, I think you're gonna be fine.

Mm. Have some tea. Chill out. It's all good.

PY: Mm. Very cozy space from what I remember.

Meg: Yeah.

PY: Mm.

Meg: Yeah. They, the, the volunteers have done an incredible job at making it cozy.

PY: Mm. Because, you know, the, the whole, the whole event can be, you know. Can be quite high. Stim the whole thing. There can be a lot of noise. Uh, a lot of action.

Yeah. A lot of partying, and it can be really cold as well. Um

Meg: mm-hmm.

PY: Sometimes that doesn't make for, um, make for a good time. So it's good to have somewhere where you can chillax and if you do need help, um, it's there.

Meg: Yeah. Yep. That's, that's ultimately what we try to be, is just, um, a, a safe chilled out space for you to come and gather your thoughts or get what you need or, or, you know, question if this is right for you right now, or if you need anything or maybe some additional support.

Um, yeah, we're a bit of a triage, but also chill.

PY: Mm, that's right. [00:27:00] Because there, there is additional resources on site as well. There's very good medical if people need additional help, that, that can be more than could be offered in sanctuary as well, I believe.

Meg: Yes. Yes. And, and sometimes we might be a space where, you know, you find out that a little bit of extra support would be necessary.

Mm-hmm. Um, it's not very common, but you know, I've got a great relationship with our onsite paramedic. Yeah. He was a just valuable resource last year. And um, so, you know, if it helps a person to feel a little better, if they get checked out, great. We'll walk over and do that. But, um, I'd, I'd rather have them there than not.

PY: Yeah, absolutely. It's a good safety blanket for all of us, I think.

Meg: Absolutely.

PY: So in terms of, um, volunteers, uh, who are you looking for? Does a person volunteering a sanctuary need to have any particular skills or background?

Meg: No, I don't think so at all. Uh, we, we've got people from a really wide range of backgrounds who volunteer for sanctuary.

Mm-hmm. You don't [00:28:00] even really have to have an interest in mental health as long as you're happy just to be welcoming, relaxed. Mm-hmm. And, um, willing to kind of approach anybody who approaches us with warmth, kindness, and understanding. Mm-hmm. Um, which I think we're all quite capable of, especially in our community.

So, you know, uh, I, I try to be really, um, big on the message that, uh, we will take anyone who's a volunteer, there's no standard you have to meet. 'cause I think a lot of people are fearful that if they don't have a mental health background, they wouldn't be able to do that work, but they absolutely can.

PY: Hmm.

Have you on on that. Have you found that people who do volunteer in that capacity perhaps are, are sort of inspired to go on and, and do further education or sort of pursue careers in that mental health or harm reduction area? Have you found that?

Meg: Absolutely. So I, I'd say that a large number of our volunteers of people who are testing the waters out to see if maybe that direction would suit them for a career.

Ah, yeah.

PY: Okay. Good little testing area perhaps for people who are mm-hmm. Interested in [00:29:00] going that direction. Cool. Okay. And in terms of time commitment, what sort of, what sort of shifts do you have and, um, what sort of time commitment, uh, would you be looking for from, for people volunteering in sanctuary?

Meg: So there's, there's a pretty wide range of ways that people can volunteer for sanctuary. There's, uh, there's two major parts of it. One is the environment itself. Mm-hmm. And the other is the people who run it. Mm-hmm. And so you don't necessarily have to do a shift at sanctuary to be a big assistance because we need to build a cozy space.

Yes. And we, we always struggle every year to have enough. Materials in the space to make it nice, warm and cozy. Mm. So, uh, you know, if people have space on their truck, if they can bring us, you know, extra pillows, extra blankets mm-hmm. Maybe a table. Some people come and they drop off gifts of foods, snacks, tea.

Mm-hmm. Um, we occasionally have, I think, I think last year we had a guest star chef come over and make us like [00:30:00] these wonderful betel leaf, um, uh, hors d'oeuvres for everybody to enjoy. Cool. Uh, so there's the part of it that's more about needing support to help build a beautiful space. Mm-hmm. And then the other half is having volunteers who are willing to man the space at any given time, um, for about four hours.

Okay. That's kind of the length of time. And that's, you know, it's flexible. We can work it out. I understand that people have events they wanna go to or, you know, there's some show they wanna see, but we we're, we're really flexible about that. We mostly just wanna make sure that, um, we've got at least one welcoming person there as often as we can.

PY: Okay, cool. So a bit of help before and help with transportation and materials and then some help during, during events in four hour shifts. Mm-hmm. Okay. Mm-hmm. Um, in terms of your, your setup, are you, would you be looking for people to get to decide maybe a, a day before gate opens? Or what, what kind of timeframe are you thinking you here to, to get the, the space [00:31:00] built?

Meg: Yeah, so I'm thinking a day before Gates, um, I was there a day before, uh, last year. Mm-hmm. And that ended up being just fine. We get our tent set up, uh. I think maybe a day or two before that. Mm-hmm. So the good news is because, um, I believe it's artery that provides us our tent, but, uh, oh, no cav, sorry. CAV provides us our tent.

Mm-hmm. So luckily we've got this big, beautiful space. All we have to do is just furnish it. Mm-hmm. And that only takes us about a day. Cool. Um, to put up some fairy lights and make a cozy environment mm-hmm. Environ and then volunteers. Just as long as they're able to sort of be there before their shift, it's fine.

PY: Okay, cool. And there may be a bit of help with packing down as well. That's, that's, I, I find that's often a difficult, that's always welcome. Yeah. Everyone's tied by then, so a lot of people are leaving.

Meg: Always encouraged. Yeah. For sure.

PY: That all sounds pretty, pretty easy. Me. Um, what would you say to someone who's maybe, uh, you know, hasn't volunteered much at a festival before, but maybe is thinking this, this could be.[00:32:00]

For them. What, what would you say to them if they're kind of a bit borderline about, ah, this sort of sounds like a team for me. Maybe I should jump in, maybe I shouldn't.

Meg: Well, you know, I think the number one thing I'd say, um, which I do think is valuable for everyone to know is mm-hmm. Um, before we go to Underland, uh, in August, it's gonna be a Sunday in August.

Mm-hmm. But I haven't gotten the exact date yet, so I'll, I'll, I'll update you on that. But in August, myself and a, uh, very, very good friend of mine named Joe. Mm-hmm. Uh, we run a mental health first aid workshop in Melbourne.

PY: Ah, fantastic.

Meg: Uh. That workshop is available to literally anybody going to Underland.

So you don't even have to volunteer for Sanctuary to attend this workshop. Mm. But it's a harm reduction workshop designed to help people help each other, especially when issues are related to sunset consumption. Mm-hmm. And, uh, it's just about trying to educate the public and give people some free training.

Mm-hmm. It's really valuable training. Uh, it's myself and Joe. And Joe is a, [00:33:00] um, psychiatrist and both of us are trained in harm reduction strategies. We've got extensive training in psychedelic therapy. Mm-hmm. And so, uh, I, I think that one, it's free. Yeah. And anybody can come. It's a very good deal, but also if you were thinking about volunteering for Sanctuary, this would be a really good workshop to attend and get some, you know, really useful information and some real life practice.

It's not, it's not a slide show. We don't use slideshows. Mm-hmm. It's real, uh, real practice mm-hmm. In groups with people. So it's actually a pretty fun day.

PY: Hmm. Fantastic. A good way to, um, a good way to get some skills that can be useful at event and, and everywhere, really.

Meg: Everywhere. Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

Everywhere. We try to make it a very, very, very, um, practical, usable set of knowledge that you gain with us. Hmm.

PY: Fantastic. Sounds like it, um, might almost dovetail into Green Dot training for, for Rangers. I don't know if we've got that going yet, but it sounds a little bit similar.

Meg: [00:34:00] Yeah. Yeah. I would, we really encourage Rangers to make it to this training if they're able to.

Mm-hmm. Um, it's, it's extremely relevant knowledge for them as well.

PY: Hmm. Fantastic. Okay. So it's sounding like for someone who is maybe thinking about volunteering that, um, one, they'll be working with professional people such as yourself at the event, so there'll be well supported. And two, there's this chance for, for free training beforehand, or maybe they can come along and just sort of dip their toe in the training for a start and see maybe if they wanna take it mm-hmm.

Further from there.

Meg: Yes. Yeah. I, I mean, last year's training was really wonderful and we heard so many stories about moments where people have felt really unsure or a bit scared mm-hmm. About something they saw mm-hmm. Or something that happened to them, or a, a moment when they're trying to take care of a friend and they didn't know what to do.

And, uh, I, I just think, you know, I, I think most people can recall a moment like that for themselves when they've been at a festival. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's just, it helps us all keep each other safer. [00:35:00]

PY: I'm thinking this is the sort of training I really could have done within my twenties that, that would, um, yes, it would come in handy.

Meg: Me too.

PY: Yeah. Come in handy a few times. Um,

Meg: yeah.

PY: Meg, thanks for that. That sounds really good. Yeah. Sanctuary is a fantastic resource, a great place where, where people can go and be looked after and, you know, um, be it, be it a substance problem or, you know, be it just being a bit overwhelmed or just needing somewhere warm to kind of sit down and snuggle up for a while.

It's, um, it's a fantastic thing to have at an event.

Meg: Mm-hmm.

PY: Yeah. Any last messages for, for any of the community out there?

Meg: Uh, just don't be afraid to say hi. Mm-hmm. Um, I'm always happy to have a conversation, but I've got a wonderful group of people who are also contributing. Mm-hmm. My good friend BJ is gonna be, uh, assisting with Sanctuary as well.

Oh, fantastic. Um, he was. He was totally invaluable last year, and he's gonna be taking part again this year. So even during your volunteer shift at Sanctuary, you're gonna be supported by a on-call [00:36:00] professional. Um, so even though our volunteers don't need training, the person who's gonna be on call each day does have qualifications.

Mm-hmm. So they are always on radio and they can be available for questions, support. Mm-hmm. Whatever. I'll be one of those people. BJ will probably be one of those people, but we, we have a couple of other professionals who have put their hands up for that too. So you don't need to worry about not feeling supported.

Mm-hmm. Um, it's mostly just about coming to, you know, hang out, have some team, make a sandwich, make a friend, and, um, yeah, enjoy yourself.

PY: Fantastic. What's the best way for people to get in contact with you if they want to volunteer?

Meg: Yeah, so I, I reckon just email me. Mm-hmm. Um, that's totally fine. I don't mind, uh, the best way to contact me is probably through my, um, my professional email account mm-hmm.

Which is meg@unisonmentalhealth.com. Mm-hmm. And yeah, I'm happy to answer any questions or put people through or give them details about the training or, or anything they might need to [00:37:00] know. I'm probably gonna start a group chat on, uh, WhatsApp too for the, for the sanctuary team that they can join and we can talk about what we're doing, how we're doing it, all that sort of stuff.

PY: Cool. Gotcha. Yeah. Okay. I can't think of anything else. Uh, that's been really fantastic. Uh, thank you for coming on the podcast today and I look forward to seeing you at Underland.

Meg: Yeah, you too. Thank you for having me.

PY: Coming up next, the fire team.

Benji, big. bonzaar. Welcome. Thanks for coming on the podcast. Can you introduce yourself and, uh, tell us what you do at underland?

Benji: Yeah. Um, my name's, uh, Benji Dixon and at Underland I am the fire team lead.

PY: And how long have you been doing that for?

Benji: Uh, I've been involved with Underland for, since its creation.

Mm-hmm. Um, which was back in 2022, I believe. The first, uh, burn [00:38:00] that we had. That's right. Yeah. Um, I think, yeah, sorry, it was just after COVID. Mm-hmm. Uh, where I got involved, it was an opportunity to, um, uh, come on board, uh, after COVID. Uh, after being involved with other burns around Australia and around the world mm-hmm.

And to see an opportunity to work within the fire team, uh, well volunteer my time in the fire team. Um, and I'll burn, that's a bit closer to home was Yeah. Um, something I wanted to do

PY: other burns around the world. So that means you've been burning and doing fire team stuff for a while around the place?

Benji: Yeah. Yeah. So I got involved my first burn back in 2015. Mm-hmm. Um, at, and that was burning seed, uh, in New South Wales, Australia. Mm-hmm. And I was at that first burn that I learned that there was, uh, we had, uh, fire teams on site. Mm-hmm. And with my background in emergency services, I wanted to join immediately.

Mm-hmm. From [00:39:00] there, I, uh, uh, volunteered my time over at Flip side and, um, MIS in Texas. Uh. Working for those burns. And uh, more recently I've been involved with the ESD and Burning Man in the States, as well as, uh, collaborating with friends, uh, over back home in New Zealand with Kiwi Burn with the FAST team.

PY: So that, that means you've been going backwards and forwards to the states, um, a fair bit for burning stuff.

Benji: Yeah. So this, uh, year coming will be my fourth, uh, year in a row since, uh, they restarted again after COVID. Mm-hmm. Cool. Yeah.

PY: Yeah. I've noticed there's quite a few, um, professional and volunteer firies on the, the fire team.

It seems to, um, perhaps more than the other teams attract people who do that kind of activity in their professional lives as well. Does that make sense?

Benji: Yes. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, so, uh, perfect example is, uh, with the [00:40:00] ESD and, and Burning Man, we, it's an incredibly large department and diverse with, uh, skills and knowledge from a wide range of backgrounds, um, everywhere from volunteer to a full-time professional.

And that includes medics and doctors as well. Um, who. Come out to the playa to volunteer their time and help out and be a part of the event.

PY: Hmm. I remember being, um, quite impressed with the big burn when I went to the, uh, the medical center and the first thing they told me was, I'm a doctor in real life as well.

Gives you a bit of, gives you a bit of assurance that someone professional is looking after you. I thought that was, that was very helpful. Yeah. Um, mm-hmm. Okay. Well let's, let's dive into the fire team for people who aren't familiar because there's quite a few teams, even at a small burn. What does the fire team do?

Benji: So our primary role at Underland is all fire emergencies on site. So we will respond to any fire emergency that we would have underland. [00:41:00] Uh, we are. Backed up by a fantastic fire medical team as well. Mm-hmm. Um, who, uh, back us up, uh, with their, uh, appliances and equipment. Mm-hmm. Uh, and obviously for the burn nights, which we have the GY in Temple, we, uh, play a crucial role in that and making sure nothing else catches on fire and just making sure that the artwork that we are burning, uh, goes to plan.

Um, so we have Inba chasers. Mm-hmm. We have a couple of trucks. Mm-hmm. Um, decked out with emergency gear ready to go. Um, and, uh, yeah, we are there to support, uh, the community with fire safety and make sure everyone has a good night.

PY: Mm-hmm. And there's lot, there's a lot of gear involved as well. I seem to remember.

There's a lot of stuff on trailers and backpacks and a lot of fire safety gear. There's a, there's sort of. There's a lot of moving parts to the team.

Benji: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, that's true. Um, so while [00:42:00] we're, um, our crew's on shift, we, during the night, uh, there's a lot of burn barrels that we, uh, uh, that theme camps and that the organization have, and we sort of monitor those and make sure that they're all running above board and, um, that there's no safety issues going on with them.

Mm-hmm. Uh, and there's obviously as well with the, uh, burn nights, we always make sure that, uh, once the structure is down and it's burning, that it's raked into a safe pile. Mm-hmm. So it's, um, safe, excuse me, safely managed through the night. Um, which is our, probably our biggest role during the event is making sure, uh, that that's, uh, under control and, uh, safe for everyone to just come and hang out and chill out by the fire.

PY: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I remember, um, you know, my first time seeing, uh, an FG burn at one of the smaller burns, I was amazed at even a smaller structure, how long and how hot, uh, it'll burn for, and how much work needs to go [00:43:00] in afterwards to, to making sure if it's all safe. You know, even, even a smaller fg there's like, there's a lot of fuel there and there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of energy that needs to get released.

Benji: Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

PY: Yeah. Um, and if I remember correctly, at Underland we are lucky enough to have, uh, the presence from the local CFA there as well. Well, we haven't passed years anyway. Is that?

Benji: Yeah, that's correct. So, uh, the landowner, Mick, he's, uh, a local CFA captain with, um, paradise, I believe it is.

Mm-hmm. Uh, and then we also have the neighboring town, nevarre. Uh, we have a CFA captain that comes out and joins us as well as a part of the team. So having that local presence, especially, uh, local knowledge, uh, to the environment and vegetation within the area. Uh, worst case scenario, if something was to get out, having that knowledge, there is a massive, uh, asset.

Um, and uh, great to have that backup if something was to go wrong. [00:44:00] Mm. Which hasn't No, and will not because, uh, no. Yeah. We run a good team.

PY: Absolutely. Yeah. I can, I can see how having that local knowledge would be, we be, would be good. Do, do you reckon, I, I know Mick has a good time. Do you reckon the other local fire, you know, that.

This must be all a bit different. Well, them, do you reckon they have a good time as well? They come along,

Benji: yeah. Yeah. Um, so going back a step from, um, other burns that I've worked at. Mm-hmm. Uh, we, we recruited a lot of local firefighters, uh, local volunteers from, um, the area where we held, uh, burning seed, for example, uh, up at Matong.

And, um, having their knowledge and experience around was, uh, hugely vital for us. It was great to have, and they were there. A lot of 'em had never experienced, uh, the Burning Man culture before. And they were hugely, um, I don't wanna say wowed, but [00:45:00] usually, and they super enjoyed it. That's a good way, I guess you could say.

And then eventually we were hooked into the culture and the community and wanted to keep coming back, um, which we, which was great to have.

PY: Yeah. Okay. That's interesting. Fire team's a really good example of where, you know, that connection with the local. Community works so well both ways. We, we need their knowledge, we need their, their expertise, um, and they get to see, you know, something completely different from what they would usually see.

I remember, um, yeah, yeah, last year I did, um, Sandman for the first time and one of the, uh, MFS guys said to me like, you're gonna be standing closer to a big fight ever. Like, this is, this is the closest hopefully you'll ever get to anything this big in your life. And he, he, yes, he wasn't wrong. It was, um, yeah, it was, it was toast for sure.

Benji: Yeah. The, the heat and energy that comes off those structures when they're burning is, uh, uh, yeah. When it flashes, we call, um, firefighting terms, [00:46:00] uh, with most fires is a point we call flashpoint. Mm-hmm. Where everything combusts all at the same time. Mm-hmm. And, uh, temperature not going into too many, too much detail, but the, um, uh, the heat and energy that's produced happens rapidly fast, and the heat rapidly rises within a few seconds.

PY: So that's why I feel at my back and then things suddenly, um, get very real.

Benji: Correct.

PY: Okay. Okay.

Benji: Yes. Yes. Mm. Uh, hence why the Sandman and uh, fire team we're Yeah. Special protective clothing for what they have to do, especially the Sandman. Um, yes. We should the helmets and explain that familiar. So yeah.

PY: When the, the burn happens, um, the Sandman the fire team do slightly different roles.

That's right, isn't it?

Benji: That's very correct. Yeah. Um, so contrary to belief, uh, a lot of people believe that, uh, the Sandman are actually firefighters, but they are dressed in firefighting gear Yep. But they're not firefighters. Yep. They're actually [00:47:00] the last line of defense. Mm-hmm. Uh, for the burn. Mm-hmm. Um, don't want to step on too many toes from other people who, um, manage, uh, the Sandman team.

Mm-hmm. But, uh, their role is crucially important to the safety of the community as well. We try, there was an incident, uh, with Burning Man a few years ago, uh, where an individual ran into the fire. Mm. Um, and the Sandman were created as the safety net for that situation, uh, in case it happened again. Mm. Uh, and since then, um, the Sandman, uh, do a hugely important role for the community, and they haven't had any major incidence since.

We've had one person who's, uh, I believe that was, uh, decided to have a little run, but, uh, was stopped very professionally by the Sandman team.

PY: It's, um, it's good to know that the system works. I think it, [00:48:00] you know, when, yeah. The outer perimeter there is there, the inner perimeter is there, but when you actually see it in action, you sort of think, oh good.

Like this is a good system. Um, you know, it does exactly what it's, what it's meant to do, and it can, you know, yeah. Shut down an incident very, very quickly. Let's, um, the whole idea of this podcast is we're sort of doing a shout out for volunteers for, uh, Underland 2025. So if someone wanted to get involved with the fire team, can you tell me, uh, what, what kind of people were you, you looking for?

What sort of skills do you need for someone to be on the fire team?

Benji: Ideally, anyone who, uh, has any firefighting experience, they can be full-time, part-time volunteer. Mm-hmm. If you don't have any experience, I would still love to have you if you are keen and keen and willing to learn. Sorry, I can't speak English.

Um, I'd love, I'd still love to have you. The best way to contact me is, uh, via, um, uh, [00:49:00] my common Arts email, which is fire team at common arts org au. Mm-hmm. Or you can, uh, contact the organization directly and, uh, crew Wranglers will, um, uh, lead you in the right direction. Yeah, that's. Pretty much it really.

Um, yeah.

PY: As, as far as, um, time commitment goes, does uh, will the crew need to be there sort of pre and post-event or it's mainly just, you know, uh, for when between, um, uh, gate opens and, and gate closes kind of time commitment?

Benji: Yeah, definitely during the event. Mm-hmm. So no pre or post, um, event, which is, yeah.

I wouldn't need, uh, volunteers. I'd pretty much take care of that myself. Mm-hmm. But, uh, the shifts are roughly seven hours long. Mm-hmm. Um, it is a bit of a longer than a range of shift, uh, but I'd only require you to do one shift and one burn night, and you have the option of doing over the effigy or the temple, uh, [00:50:00] whatever you prefer.

Mm-hmm. We do have a night shift as well that is. Double the lengths. It's actually 14 hours. Mm-hmm. However, the night shift is, you know, as per a standard firefighting shift, you can, if you want to go to bed and go to sleep, you can do that. Ah, right. You don't have to be awake the entire time. Um, as, but you are required to have your radio with you ready to respond.

Okay. If something is to occur.

PY: Right. Sleeper shift, I think it's called. Yeah. Or sleep sleeper channel on the radio anyway. Okay.

Um,

Benji: um, no, we don't, we don't actually have a sleeper channel. Uh, we have our own, uh, fire emergency channel, so, um, okay. There you go. Yeah. So we're quite, quite special. Uh, we used to share radio channels with rangers at one point.

Um, but then, uh, over time we've, uh, managed to secure our own, uh, radio channel for the fire team.

PY: Oh, good stuff. I didn't know that. Cool. It, it's good to hear that people can come along with no prior experience and get a bit of [00:51:00] training and participate as well. I think that's one of the really good things about getting involved in this whole burning scene.

It's, uh, it's a chance for people who wouldn't necessarily do this kind of thing in, in their, you know, day-to-day lives to come and do something completely different and pick up some skills as well and be, you know, valued as part of a team.

Benji: Yeah, yeah.

PY: And I, you know, I think, I dunno, maybe I, maybe, 'cause I haven't done too many of these, but I think it's still special.

Being part of that burn, burn night, you really feel like something important happening and you're getting to take part in something that's, that's quite significant. Do you still get, I mean, you've done so many of these now, but do you still get that feeling on burn night that, you know, like something's really happening, something's coming to sort of a, a peak here and we're sort of, you know, right.

In the, in the core of it. Do you still get that kind of buzz out of the experience?

Benji: Every time. Yeah. Interesting. Every time. Yeah. Um, sorry, I just wanna go back a bit and add a little, uh, probably the, so in regards to the volunteers, and it's only just something I just thought [00:52:00] about now. Yeah. Over the years, a lot of the volunteers who have come to work for us at Underline mm-hmm.

Are the ones that have never had any experience. Mm-hmm. And a lot of those are the ones who I've found over time that curiosity of actually going into the fire service or volunteering for say, CFA or New South Wales Rural Fire as a proper volunteer that spend that bridge to sort of see what it's like and then to move on into that world.

And surprisingly, over time, a lot of those people who are sparked that curiosity of joining our team have gone on to be volunteer firefighters and professional firefighters in, um, in that world. Outside of Burns, which has been great to see personally.

PY: That's cool. Um, so the Beach Boys always Yeah. That's interesting.

Locals. Yeah. Locals come along.

Benji: Yeah.

PY: They become local fires come along, they become part of the, the culture and people who aren't firies get involved with the fire team and they [00:53:00] go on to, you know, be volunteers or professionals out there in the broader community. And, and I guess, is it the case that once you've been on the fire team locally, it opens up the door to, you know, if you do wanna go to the big burn or another regional or kiwi burn, is it, does it sort of open up the door for to volunteer on those teams as well?

Benji: Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Yep. We, um, we are a small team, uh, when you think about and compare it to other teams that we have, um, within Underland. Mm-hmm. But our connections worldwide are massive. Um, last year it was probably our most international teams. We, uh, team that we had, we had our Kiwi Burn Fire team lead there from FAST who's already opened up avenues for a crew of ours to go across and be a part of his team, as well as myself taking people to Burning Man for the ESD.

And also we had a Tasmanian, um, burner who's already started re [00:54:00] I believe he started to recruit some of our crew as well to go to the Tasmanian Burn. He also wanted me to go over, but unfortunately I couldn't. Um, which would, I'd love to have gone to, um, if that happened.

PY: So, yeah. Okay. That's cool. It's a, it's a way into not just this local burn, but a part of the bigger.

Community of, of fire team around the world.

Benji: Yes. Sorry, I forgot third degree as well. There was third degree that we had a lot of third degree got uh, team, uh, fire crew last year and That's right, they came and helped us out too. I remember that. Yes. Sorry, I forgot to mention that.

PY: Sorry. Third degree. Yes, I remember them.

Benji: Yeah.

PY: Please, please, please come back again. Third degree team.

Benji: Yes, please come back.

PY: Benji, is there any last messages you've got for any potential volunteers or the, or the, uh, little burner community at all that you'd like to shout out before we, uh, finish up today?

Benji: I guess if you're curious and wanna do something [00:55:00] different and you've never been, and you've looked at say the fire team and thought, nah, I can't do that.

Mm-hmm. Uh, surprise yourself. Yeah. You'd be, you'll enjoy it. I guarantee you that. A perfect example is my partner, um, she never. I ever thought of being a firefighter in her life, and this is a single mom at that point when I first met her, um, who's going through cancer and struggling with health issues.

Mm-hmm. Uh, and now loves volunteering, uh, for the fire team. Uh, and is actually stepped up to be a crew leader this year, and she's an absolute badass. Yeah. Then, and, you know, just shows that anyone can do this role.

PY: Yeah. Not your stereotypical image of a, like a young male, you know, sort of muscly fire dude.

Yeah. It's, uh, you know. Mm-hmm. Anyone can step up and do the role. That's interesting.

Benji: Yes. [00:56:00] Yeah. She's come a long way since she first started and now she's, yeah. Um, she's being a crew leader this year, so, yeah. Yeah. Love to have you on board. If you're keen, come and join us.

PY: Excellent. Okay. We'll put the links of how to contact you in the show notes.

Uh, Benji, thanks for being on the podcast.

Benji: Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

PY: Coming up next, the sandman

Bjorn and Ninja, welcome to the bonzaar podcast. How you doing?

Ninja: I'm good, man. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.

Bjorn: Thank you as well.

Ninja: Hey, Bjorn.

Bjorn: Hey ninja.

PY: You guys. Now, now you guys sound like you, you go back a, a back ways. Can, you, can, can we begin by, um, y'all introducing yourselves and, uh, telling us how you got, uh, uh, involved, uh, in the burning scene and, and Underland?

[00:57:00] Uh, Bjorn, why don't you go first?

Bjorn: Oh yeah. Hey, um. I suppose the first time I got in the burning scene, I was an artist in 2019. Mm-hmm. And I made this fantastic sculpture that I didn't peg down properly and it blew away. And since then I've been pretty in the scene helping organize some things. Um, and Underland is now my local burn because I'm a Ballarat dude.

Alright. Um, last year, yeah, last year I joined Underland helping with a few teams, sanctuary safety and um, Sandman. And that's where Ninja and I I would say got quite close.

Ninja: Yeah.

Bjorn: And our relationship blossomed in a fantastic way.

Ninja: Yeah. The start of the bromance,

Bjorn: oh mate.

PY: Use that one. I thought you, you guys weren't there.

Ninja: Totally, dude. Totally.

Bjorn: And I believe Ninja actually has been. Part of the scene since forever.

Ninja: I wouldn't say forever. Um, I, I was fortunate enough to, um, [00:58:00] uh, join the scene at Burning Seed when I was, um, first brought into, um, Victoria Mm, uh, sorry, uh, into New South Wales in 2012, I think it was. Mm-hmm. Um, I, I was, uh, fresh out of the military when I joined, uh, the, the group.

Uh, I was brought in by a friend who said, Hey, I've, I'm doing this thing called Cuddle College. I want you to help me, uh, co-facilitate and just help, you know, keep the rebel rousers at bay if they get a bit, um, you know, um, naughty. And so I thought, yeah, fuck it. Why not? Let's do it. Uh, and on my first day, uh, um, first morning, uh, I got outta my tent.

Um, a fellow camper came out of his tent, you know, rubbing his face going, oh my God, I'm late, I'm late. I, I dunno what to do. I said, uh, what are you late for, mate? And he said, what's wrong with you? And he was a bit munted. And I said, look, I got you, man. Well, what do you need? Just let me know. He said, I'm, I'm doing rangers.

And, and I said, uh, but I can't. Go to work in the state. And I said, I got you man. I'll, I'll step in for you. Um, so what, what are rangers? And so he explained it to me. Uh, I rocked [00:59:00] up. I said, I, I dunno if I, I'm meant to be here. But someone said, um, they can't work. And I'm stepping in for stepping in for them.

And they, they welcomed me, gave me some soldiers. site training on the job. And, uh, off I went. And very quickly they said, well, you've got some pretty ninja skills. Do you want to, uh, step up and, um, uh, co-lead for the following year? And which is how I kind of got involved, um, at the leadership, um, level.

And then, and, and I've been in and around, um, um, the burning community and rangers specifically ever since.

PY: Hmm. Straight into the deep end then?

Ninja: Yeah, very much so. Yeah. Very, very much so.

PY: And John, I'm, I'm curious to note, 2019 still got this stuck in my head. What, which event was this that your artwork blew over at?

I'm trying to picture it in my, in my mind. Where, where was this, this big blow over?

Bjorn: It was a burning seed man.

PY: Oh, okay. It was, it was seed then, right. This is kind of all before my time, so I don't, I don't know anyone from, from back then, but, but listeners will probably what, just so I'm sure people [01:00:00] listening will, will remember your artwork.

Can you, can you tell them what it was so people are like, oh yeah, I remember that one.

Bjorn: Oh yeah. So it was a six meter, a no, maybe five meter tall by, five meter wide by five meter deep camera, obscura. Oh. And it looked like a massive black camera and you could walk into it and everything on the outside is projected on the walls of the inside via the camera, obscura sort of principle.

PY: Oh, that's awesome.

Bjorn: Yeah. But it turned out to be a massive sail and in the wind it caught and did a big flip. No one was hurt, thank God. Oh, but I've since learned that you need to peg stuff down.

PY: Wow. Bet it Did it, did it stay up long enough for people to get a, you know, have a few people to have a good look at it, et cetera?

Bjorn: Yeah, I remember, um, one day I came by and checked it out and a few people were, you know, consuming smokeable goods inside and it turned into a very steamy camera. [01:01:00] Obscura. Ooh. That was very well loved. Easy guarantee.

PY: Ah, interesting. Ah, there you go. Ninja. Have you ever done any art projects or you've always stuck on the, the rangering and sandman?

Ninja: No, no. Of things. I, I, I wouldn't say I'm very cr um, creative in that respect. Now my creativity comes purely from my, my service to community. Mm. Um, so I, my, my entire burn is centered around the, the Ranger tribe.

PY: Mm. Yeah. It's, it's, we've had Egg on already talking about Rangers. Um, it's a good way to get involved in the event, isn't it?

And sort of feel like you are participating a bit more.

Ninja: Very much so. It's probably one of the, uh, most fun, uh, department to be, um, starting in. Hmm. Because it's very, uh, it has a lot of vis, uh, visibility. Uh, what that effectively means is you do get a great deal of care and love from the people, um, uh, who, who participate in, in the burn, uh, events.

Mm-hmm. Uh, and you just, uh, you feel so much love from the [01:02:00] community mm-hmm. Um, you know, from the, from the get go. So it's, it's a fun place to, to be starting your, your volunteering, um, um, career in, in, in, in the, in the burn event.

PY: Mm-hmm. And it, it seems to me that a lot of people who do rangering also do Sandman.

It's kind of, Sandman is almost sitting slightly adjacent to, slightly adjacent to rangers and slightly adjacent to the fire team as well. That's where Sandman seems to be in my head.

Ninja: Yeah. Kind of. Um, Sandman comes directly under the umbrella of, um, rangers. We, we, we take all our directives from them. Yep.

And we are an, uh, um, ex auxiliary to the, the Ranger Department. Mm-hmm. But what we are, uh, are basically a, uh, a dedicated and especially trained cutter of rangers mm-hmm. That operate within the burn perimeter on burn nights for both the temple and the effigy.

PY: Mm-hmm. So I've only done it once. Can you tell us, um, a little bit about the, the [01:03:00] nuts and bolts of what it involves?

I think people may have seen the Sandman or have seen people in the fire circle, you know, you're sort of aware that there's. There's rangers there, and then there's a bunch of people wearing the fire suit. Some are walking around, some are staying still. Uh, can you tell us a bit more about like the, the nuts and bolts of how it all works on the day?

Ninja: Absolutely. And Bjorn. Please do jump in anytime, uh, you feel like you wanna add something to the, to the sauce. Okay. Um, the Sandman, as I said, uh, you know, um, especially trained cut cutoff rangers there. So the, we are first and foremost, um, rangers before we are sandman.

PY: Mm-hmm.

Ninja: And if you have been to a burn and you have attended, uh, the, the, uh, effigy burn, you'll notice that there are two levels of perimeter.

The first level of perimeter are uniform rangers that provide a, um, like a, um, chain link fence, um, in front of the participants and the observers. Mm-hmm. And then there's a second level of, um, um, uh, uh, ranges who are in specialized, um, firefighting and gear or, or fire [01:04:00] suits mm-hmm. That stand very, very close to the fire.

And now these are the Sandman, um. We work very closely with, um, the safety and coordination team, which includes, but I'm not limited to the burn IC or the burn incident controller, uh, the event safety and medical team, and of course the build team. Mm-hmm. So those guys in the, uh, typically yellow, um, firefighting suits or sometimes orange, uh, are the ones that are standing right up against the fire as close as possible.

Mm-hmm. And our, our prime directive is to provide an enjoyable experience to participants during the burn by maintaining and manning a physical barrier between the burning structure mm-hmm. And the observers on the outer perimeter. Mm-hmm. And we do this by providing a physical and visual deterrent for anyone who plans to breach the perimeter.

PY: Hmm. Because unfortunately, like on, on occasion and very, very rarely, um, someone does try to, to breach the perimeter for whatever reason and, and run into that, uh, burn circle. [01:05:00]

Ninja: Yeah. Yeah. In, in all the years that I've been doing this, it's only ever happened a few times. Um, most. 99% of the time our, in Australia at least, you know, our participants are very, very cooperative and they understand the, uh, the role and the, the gravity of, of, of the role that we, we carry out.

PY: Mm-hmm.

Ninja: But unfortunately in, uh, in there have, there have been, um, events, uh, where, you know, um. Uh, what we call fire runners have actually breached both perimeters and I've actually, uh, put themselves in, in, in harm's way. Hmm. And that will not only jeopardize their, their own safety, but it also jeopardizes everyone else's, uh, mental wellbeing and everyone else's, um, experience of the event.

Hmm. So this is a very, um, you know, uh, uh, job that we take very seriously, and it does require a certain mindset and a certain, uh, type of skill sets that, um, to, to do the job effectively.

PY: Hmm. Well, let, let's talk about that, uh, skillset and, and training. What sort of people are you [01:06:00] looking for to become Sandman and what sort of training will they, they have in order to, uh, take out, uh, to undertake this role?

Ninja: Hmm. Well, thanks for asking. I think this is probably one of the things that, um, which is, I guess most important about our role, how we get involved is, first and foremost, we are all rangers. And what that means is, um, we have to first attend the ranger of basic training before we even become a Sandman.

Mm-hmm. Uh, we recruit all our Sandman from within the rangers rank and file. Mm-hmm. And after completing a ranger of basic training, you then volunteer for specialized training to become a Sandman. Mm-hmm. Now this will require you to be physically fit and be willing to intercept runners who willfully breach the perimeter.

Mm-hmm. And whilst no prior training or experience is necessary to attend a training itself, it is very beneficial for candidates and prospects to have some form of contact sports or combat sports experience. Mm-hmm. Now all necessary skill sets will be provided during a training [01:07:00] phase. Mm-hmm. Um, but it is, um, it will require a certain type of mentality to, to fit in well with this team.

Mm. As I've said, we are an elite Carter of the Ranger department. Mm. And what that really means is you, you need to have a certain, um. Mindset and what I call the sheep dog, um, collective mindset. Mm. People who are, uh, completely, um, dedicated to the community safety and, and wellbeing and those who care deeply for the community.

And, you know, the ones I'm talking about, you know, the ones that go above and beyond to help our community thrive.

PY: Mm. It, it sounds very serious, but, uh, I remember the training also being quite fun on the day, like it was Oh yes. It is a lot of fun. It was a, it was a fun afternoon of, uh oh yes. Yeah. Uh, crash tackling, getting crash tackled.

Oh yes. Rolling around on the grass. Um, yes. You know, if you, if you feel like you need to kind of shake it out a bit and, and do something at event and getting a, get a bit kinetic, it's, it's a fun way to spend an afternoon and get some skills.

Ninja: Absolutely. And this is what I, this is the part I [01:08:00] love best about Sandman.

Um, we, we use what's called the ISR Matrix system, uh, to intercept, stabilize and restraint, um, um, you know, um, fire runners. Mm-hmm. This system is very effective and very easy to learn and very easy to teach. Hmm. Um, which is why I've chosen this system above, above, um, you know, basically a million other systems out there.

We use this in, in, you know, uh, in a whole wide variety of, um, um, uh, scenarios both in the burn environment and outside of the burn environment. Mm-hmm. Um, you, we, we, you know, we get to throw each other around. It's very, it's very physical. Mm-hmm. So you do need to be, um, free of injuries to, uh, to participate.

Mm-hmm. Otherwise, you know, you can potentially, um, exacerbate your, your current injuries if you have any. So you need to have a good, um, you know, your physical wellbeing has to be your personal priority before you sign up to be a volunteer. Mm-hmm. Um. You gotta be pretty honest about that to yourself more than anything else.

Mm-hmm. And off on top of that, you need to, you know, [01:09:00] want to stand pretty damn close to the fire as well. The, the actual, um, uh, physical component will take about two hours of, uh, your time on the paddock. Mm-hmm. Um, but it's a lot of fun and everyone, whether you're ranger or not, is welcome to do the training.

Mm. However, not everyone is going to be selected to be on the line or on the team. Mm-hmm. So, just want to reiterate, reiterate, everyone is welcome to attend the training, no exception.

PY: Mm. Okay. And, um, I guess the event guide will have, uh, the details of when that, that training is, obviously, the training will be before the Saturday and the Sunday because that's when the, the burns happen.

Ninja: Correct.

PY: Hmm. Okay. Um, can we talk a bit about the, uh, equipment, um, Bjorn? Can you tell us, um, a little bit about the, the specialized equipment? Um, I remember having a lot of fun, um, pulling on the, the fire suit and kind of clumping around in that. It was almost a, a little bit, um, ceremonial, everyone going up to the burn site and, uh, kind of methodically putting on the, the, the big [01:10:00] suits and, uh, you know, checking.

We are all good and of cross checking with each other. Uh, can you tell us a little bit about the gear?

Bjorn: Yeah, of course. So, um, the biggest thing for all of us is that obviously everyone is quite safe during their sandman shift. And one way we do that is by dressing every up and full fire retardant gear.

PY: Mm-hmm.

Bjorn: And if you've never worn fire retardant gear before, it's pretty different to normal cvs. It's really thick, heavy clothing, big jackets. You wear a fire of wood, a helmet, um, goggles, big gloves. It's sort of like, um, well when I was sort of looking at everyone dressed up, it's sort of like a weird cosplay thing where everyone's pretending to be big dog firemen and.

That's, as you're totally right PY, there's sort of something weirdly ceremonial about everyone meeting before the burn, dressing up together, walking up together, and spending time together. Mm-hmm. I think, um, obviously all other teams are very close, but I'd sort of like to sp spruik [01:11:00] the fact that I reckon sand men sort of develop a deep bond together that

Ninja: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Bjorn: Really it's, it's something very special. Mm-hmm. Um, as Ninja was saying before, you know, we're all there putting our bodies on the line, tackling each other to train to help everyone. So we all have this level of service that's really deep in us for the community, but also just physically standing in front of the fire and being in the depths of it with everyone.

Mm. Like it's sort of, it's quite unparalleled really.

Ninja: Mm. And, and it also, uh, speaks to the, um, the, the very real danger that we put ourselves under, um, to take on this role because our lives effectively are in each other's hands. When we step up to the role.

PY: Hmm. I remember it. Um, I remember it feeling quite serious, but at the same time, uh, you know, just, just like the Rangers do it, your lead will come around and, and tap you on the shoulder.

So you, you you get to, um, turn around and have a good look at the fire. I, I was completely thrilled being that I've never [01:12:00] been safely that close to a fire before. And, and you know, the only reason you can be that close is 'cause you, you're dressed in that suit. It was amazing to be that close to something that powerful.

I was kind of. Like, uh, I, I remember thinking to myself, this is the only time you'll get to be this close to this much like thermal power. Power, yeah. Safely

Ninja: power. Yeah. That, that is, that. You nailed it there. Right. But with, with, um, me being on the lead, uh, and dressed as I am in, um, you know, fairly far retardant clothing, there's no way in hell I could stand that close, uh, the way you guys were standing.

And you'll notice when I come close to you, I actually use your body as a shield between me and the fire. Ah, right. Because without you being there, I will actually, I'll actually flame up quite, quite, uh, quite rapidly. Um, so yeah, to be able to observe and be that close to, you know, natural, raw power mm-hmm.

It's, I I don't think there's anything parallel to it, um, in my experience.

PY: Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah, no, I, I remember being definitely a one-off kind of experience Bjorn, [01:13:00] Bjorn you. Do you get that feeling? I like when you, you know, I guess you've done this a couple of times now, but do you still get that kind of same feeling that when you're close to the fire you think, wow, this is, this is really something.

Bjorn: Oh yeah man, there's something quite exceptional about it and I think perhaps this may be one of the subtle secret selling points of being a Sandman is that there are no other roles where it's just you and the fire. Because if you're on perimeter, they're the sandman sort of obscuring the way. And then if you are a Punta part of the community, you have these lines of perimeter obscuring the way.

But obviously as a sandman, again, as I said, it's just you and the fire unadulterated contact with it.

Ninja: Mm-hmm.

Bjorn: And there is something really riveting and almost. Sort of humbling about being in front of such a huge piece of energy. Mm. That it's, it is, it's quite hard to explain. So I do implore people [01:14:00] to become Sandman, SRUs Bru.

Yeah. So you can experience it for yourself. Mm.

Ninja: I I, I wouldn't go to, I wouldn't, it wouldn't be a long stretch to say it's an almost ex, uh, spiritual experience for some people and for me, certainly at times when I turn around and allow my guard to kind of just, um, down for a couple of seconds to look at the fire and just be with the fire.

It, it is almost a spiritual experience. Mm-hmm. For me, at least personally.

PY: Mm-hmm. No, I, I'm sure a lot of people feel the same. I, I certainly did, uh, last year. It was, it was amazing. Um, but yeah, definitely. Yeah.

Ninja: Particularly with the Temple Burn.

PY: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. You know, that one was, that one was, was very special.

Okay. So, to recap, volunteers need to be of a certain physical fitness, um mm-hmm. Need to be able to donate their time on either the Saturday or the, or the, the Sunday night or both. The burns need to undertake the training and be comfortable wearing the fire suit. I guess obviously, probably goes without saying they need to be sober for the [01:15:00]

Ninja: Absolutely.

Oh, yes. And, and, and one, one of your greatest gift.

Yeah. One of your greatest gift is your sobriety, and this is, um, you know, at a very important aspect of what we do.

PY: Mm. And then yeah, just be, be willing to be, be part of a, a really tight knit, um, team.

Ninja: Absolutely. Mm. And, and you know, what's, what's really amazing about this team, um, you know, three months post event, I'm getting, um, Sandman, you know, messaging me directly.

Say, Hey, ninja, sign me up for the next one already. I'm putting Awesome, I'm putting my dips in for the next team, which is pretty freaking awesome. But obviously we want everyone to have as, um, as much exposure to this experience as possible. Um, so, you know, I implore everyone to give it a go, at the very least step up for the training.

Mm-hmm. And, um, you will, you will. Eventually get a turn added. Mm-hmm. But, um, like I say, not everyone is suitable for it, but everyone should do the training regardless.

PY: Hmm. That's right. And I, I guess I should reiterate that training takes place. That's, it's not a, [01:16:00] it's not a pre-event training that that training actually takes place, uh, at, at the event on one after that event.

Ninja: Currently, yes. But there are plans and there are, uh, they are talks, uh, and, and planning stages of, of having this run outside of, uh, the event so that we can actually dedicate a great deal more time to find, find fine honing some of these skillset sets. Because, um, like any type of, uh, martial movements, if you don't practice them, uh, on a daily, this is something that you will lose.

Which is why we either do it very close up to the day, or we do it like, um, several times prior to. Actual being on onsite itself. And that's the plan moving forward, you know, once we've got a bit more, uh, time and energy to put into the, the, I guess the curriculum mm-hmm. And, and some fundings, um, then we will, uh, take this offsite as well as onsite.

PY: Fantastic. That, I think that'd be very, very valuable. Okay. That's sounding all good guys. What's the best way for, uh, prospective volunteers to get in [01:17:00] contact with you? I know we've got the underland website, we've got a generic crew, uh, address, but is there a particular way, uh, you'd like people to reach out to you?

Ninja: I think for, for myself, I'm, I'm very happy for people to, um, I, I don't yet have a, um, uh, uh, org um, email address, so I'm very happy for participants and, and people who have, uh, direct questions to send me a messenger question. Uh uh. Message mm-hmm. On Facebook. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and or have that directed to the org, and then that will then be sent to myself and Brn, um, um, when we receive them.

PY: Okay. No worries. So on Facebook, they can find you as Rick Ochong o apostrophe C-H-O-N-G. Correct. And, uh, I guess we should mention that the generic, uh, way of reaching out to Common Arts Victoria is the website common arts.org au. And there's email address there, crew@commonarts.org au. And, uh, [01:18:00] any volunteering role can reach out to that address and will be eventually filtered to the right person.

Ninja: That's it. Yes.

PY: Hey, um, guys, any last messages? Anything I've, uh, forgotten to talk about? Um, sand Manning. I mean, it's, uh, it's something that's very serious. I'm, that takes everyone, takes very seriously. But also, you know, a one-off special experience. Um, is there anything we've forgotten?

Ninja: No, I think we've pretty much covered it.

Um, it's a, it's a great deal of fun, as serious as it is, and as, as, as grave as the, you know, the role actually entails. The, the way we go about it is, you know, um, through, um, you know, through our tribe and through through the brotherhood of, of just being in, in a very cool department, we've got some pretty cool toys to work with.

Mm. Some very, um, um, skilled, um, facilitators. Um, and overall it's just gonna be a good, fun time.

PY: [01:19:00] Mm, absolutely.

Ninja: Anything you wanna add, Bjorn.

Bjorn: Ah, it's just one of the best jobs on paddock. Although it may seem I have to exclusive to Oh yeah, completely. Although it may seem exclusive and serious, we're actually just all a bunch of goofballs, and I really wanna underline that.

It's probably one of the safer jobs on paddock as well. Safety is our paramount priority, and we're all there to help each other.

Ninja: Absolutely.

PY: Hmm. Yeah, I, I guess that's one other thing we should point out. It's not, you know, when the burn is on, it's not just the Sandman, there's a whole system there.

There's firies, there's the medical

Ninja: forrestry, medical security,

PY: everything. So it is not like Sandman are there on their own. You making sure everyone's safe. It's, yeah. Out of a hole. Interlocking system.

Ninja: We, we definitely don't operate within a vacuum. We, we are a tight knit community, not just within, uh, the Ranger department, but you overall, as I've said earlier, you know, we, we work very closely with a burn IC, with a safety team, medical team, security team, uh, and whole [01:20:00] bunch of other people that are, are working behind the scene.

We are, we just happened to be the, I guess the public face of, uh, of this whole, um, big mechanical, um, bull that we're riding.

PY: Mm. Okay. Bjorn and Ninja, thanks a lot for coming, uh, onto the podcast. I look forward to seeing you on the paddock.

Ninja: It's been a pleasure. Yeah. Looking forward to seeing all of you. And, uh, thank you for giving this time to, uh, you know, uh, talk about, uh, our favorite thing on a paddock.

PY: One quick editorial clarification. I realize while editing that section that the team is called Sand Men, and that you've just listened to three men talk about their experiences on that team. I need to stress that there are no gender restrictions on being a member of that team. In fact, at Underland 2024, about half the team was comprised of people with genders other than male.

My apologies for not [01:21:00] clarifying that sooner. That's the end and part two of this Underland Volunteers call out episode of the bonzaar podcast. Please tune in for part three to hear from the artery Team Centre Camp team and the two build teams, the effigy Build team, and the Temple Build team. See you then.

Transcripts transcribed by Descript AI